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Future Turbine Aircraft



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 30th 03, 11:33 PM
Mike Schumann
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Default Future Turbine Aircraft

Retrofitting diesels on existing airplanes doesn't make much sense in the
US, where the fuel cost differences between 100LL and Jet-A are relatively
small. However, using diesels on new airplanes makes a lot of sense. If
you look at the price of a Diamond plane in Europe, the diesel version is
actually about $5,000 cheaper than the same airplane with a Lycoming engine.
For less money, you get better mileage and FADEC. For an FBO or a flying
club, that has a lot of pilots putting a lot of hours on their airplanes,
saving money on gas, and potentially saving on maitnenance because pilots
are not over-leaning or shock cooling the engines, could make a BIG
difference in the operating costs of the planes.

Mike Schumann

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
They are pricey now (although still lots cheaper
than turbines)


They are? You consider 40,000 $ one-time retrofit cost on a 172 and
20,000 $ replacement cost after 2400 hours (with a full guarantee for
those 2400 hours) expensive, compared to your average Lycoming with
Pete knows how many top overhauls until TBO? I'm not sure...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)




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  #2  
Old June 30th 03, 11:45 PM
David Megginson
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Default

"Mike Schumann" writes:

potentially saving on maitnenance because pilots are not
over-leaning or shock cooling the engines, could make a BIG
difference in the operating costs of the planes.


You might have that backwards: students (and renters) tend to run
overrich, not overlean, at least from what I've heard. It's the
overrich operation that does the damage (fouled plugs, stuck valves,
etc.).

Does anyone have an actual report of an engine being damaged by
overlean operation? It would be interesting to read. The only danger
I can think of would be running lean far above 75% power and causing
detonation, though vibration from an extremely rough-running engine
could also do something nasty.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/
  #3  
Old July 1st 03, 02:33 AM
RJ
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Default

Thomas Borchert wrote in message ...
Rj,

Thoughts?

Have you heard of the D-Jet by Diamond?


Thomas,

Yes I have, although it's useful load looks like it will be less than
my Bonanza. (That shouldn't be a taken as a slight to Diamond--a
company that knows how to deliver a good product, on time).

What the GA aircraft industry really needs is to rethink the now dated
migration path from complex singles. The old way was to advance to a
light twin. If you look at the insurance and accident data, moving to
a faster/higher (maybe turbine powered) single is probably the better
answer. Somehow the affordability gap has to narrow, so a $300K
complex driver isn't staring at a $2M take it or leave it choice.

RJ
  #4  
Old July 1st 03, 02:47 AM
Victor J. Osborne, Jr.
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Default

And at $40k for the engine, cowling mod's etc. VERY Steep $$$!!

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



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  #5  
Old July 1st 03, 10:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Jr.,

And at $40k for the engine, cowling mod's etc. VERY Steep $$$!!


40k$ includes everything firewall forward and behind (throttle, ECU et
cetera)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #6  
Old July 1st 03, 10:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Mike,

agreed on all points!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #7  
Old July 1st 03, 10:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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David,

You might have that backwards: students (and renters) tend to run
overrich, not overlean, at least from what I've heard. It's the
overrich operation that does the damage (fouled plugs, stuck valves,
etc.).


The point is: Students, renters and pilots in general shouldn't have to
worry about this 30s-era-stuff. I wouldn't have believed how convenient
the one-lever operation of a Thielert diesel is until I flew the
Diamond Star TDI. It is great: That one lever isn't even connected
mechanically to the engine. There are engine instruments, but the only
one that really matters is the "percent power" gauge. Everything else
is handled by the computers - even if you slam the throttly forward
hamfistedly, they will accelerate (sp?) the engine as gently as makes
sense from a mechanical standpoint.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #8  
Old July 1st 03, 10:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Default

Rj,

what I like about the D-Jet concept is that it will be a turbine, but
it will be restricted to 25,000 feet, so it really is the most similar
of the light jets to a "normal" piston engine single. They avoid all
sorts of problems by that restriction.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

 




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