Have you ever...

....refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Get your CFI. Do BFRs for a while. You'll get used to it ... quickly.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:X%16e.33363$NW5.4119@attbi_s02...
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

No but I would have if I know what I know now. At the time I
had solo'd and nothing else.

I was living in Germany at the time and a friend of a friend had
a pilots license who invited us to go flying near the Austrian
Alps and Salzburg. Some of the things he did that were stupid....


1. he fueled the plane himself, he never checked fuel for contaminatino
or water.

2. Didn't have a checklist but while lined up he found it. He didn't
use it much if at all.

3. His radio calls were attrocious.

4. I dont' think he ever concerned himself with Weight and balance
despite going to high altitudes with 3 males in a 172SP.

5. Landing in Rosenheim (IIRC), from the backseat it looked like
the treetops whizzed by maybe 30 feet below us so he was very low.

6. Going into Salzburg, he had no clue where we were despite having
a Garmin 430.

7. Landing in Salzburg which I'm guessing is a Class C airport,
he had full flaps in on downwind. I'm sure at least one plane had to
really extend the downwind for us.

8. He almost landed short of the numbers despite the
9000 foot runway.

9. He landed short and we then had to taxi a mile to the GA tie downs.

10. flying out of Salzburg, he had no idea on what the clearance meant
and didn't follow it.

11. Flying out of salzburg, Tower gave us a frequency change and he
couldn't remember it (ok, this happens to the best of us).

12. At night in the EU, you have to be on a VFR flight plan and get
the equivalent of VFR flight following. Approach (or whatever you
call it there) said, "Cessna D-xxxxx, ummm, if you are going to
Augsburg, umm, don't you want to turn 90 degrees to the left?"

13. He then proceeded to bust the MUC Class B.

14. The guy needed gased his passengers as he really needed to take
a shower more than once a week.

My friend has since flown with me in California and said I was a much
smoother, stable pilot. during the trip he said that they went up
again with 2 girls (so 4 total) up over the Alps at 13000+ feet
and somehow upon returning almost got into a midair when they were
approaching onto another airplane on final (I'm guessing). He said
they were damn scared at the time.

Looking back, I should have gotten out of the plane when he didn't check
the fuel. Live and learn and gladfully I'm still alive as this guy
is going to be a statistic some day.

Gerald Sylvester

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe?
(With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

No but I would have if I know what I know now. At the time I
had solo'd and nothing else.

Ha! I hadn't even *thought* of that, but now that you mention it...

One of Mary's uncles took us flying in a rental Cessna back in the
early 80s. None of us were aware that he had his pilot's license (a
point that should have seemed odd to me at the time...), but we were
thrilled to go flying with him.

Well, more accurately, *I* was thrilled to go flying. Mary, at the
time, was ambivalent toward flying.

We took off and had a very enjoyable flight over central Wisconsin.
The flight orginated from a small, uncontrolled airport, so there was
no traffic or tower to deal with -- but in retrospect I don't remember
him using the radio at all. And, with 20/20 hindsight, his approach
speeds were very fast, and he floated forever on landing. We knew
nothing (this was actually my first flight in a small plane), but I was
ecstatic to be airborne.

Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!

This guy was always the "wild uncle" -- motorcycling across Europe,
traveling the world with a back pack and a smile, never having a pot to
pee in but living extravagantly -- and I suppose he took a few flight
lessons and decided that he already knew what he needed to know...

I shudder to think about it now...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!

He learned from Darwin... One of the best (and most unforgiving)
instructors... Just remember, which came first, pilots or the FAA/CAA?

There were many pilots trained during WWII who did not apply for
civilian pilot licenses who continued to fly as civilians following
their separation from service. My father was one of them. He had flown
single engine seaplanes up through multiengine piston transports, but
never bothered to get an FAA certificate.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!

Grumman-581 wrote:
He learned from Darwin... One of the best (and most unforgiving)
instructors... Just remember, which came first, pilots or the FAA/CAA?

Ha! I hadn't even *thought* of that, but now that you mention it...

One of Mary's uncles took us flying....
Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!

Wow. And your related to this guy. ;-) I'm never going in a plane
with you. And if you come out west please notify the FCC to put
up a NOTAM.

Your story sounds like some of the "accidents" on the NTSB website.
I put accident in quotes because any time a person without a license
goes flying and crashes it's no accident. That is expected as it
is almost intentional. Looking back I'm sure you shake your head.
I do it with this friend of a friend in Germany. He's a statistic
waiting to happen.

Gerald

Wow. And your related to this guy. ;-)

Only by marriage!

And if you come out west please notify the FCC to put
up a NOTAM.

I know my radio procedures aren't perfect, but can they really put out
NOTAMs?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
And if you come out west please notify the FCC to put
up a NOTAM.
I know my radio procedures aren't perfect, but can they really put out
NOTAMs?
;-)


Oh I meant a NOTAM on the newsgroup and not a FSS NOTAM.

Gerald

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message

.......any time a person without a license
goes flying and crashes it's no accident. That is expected as it
is almost intentional.

Yes. A person who flies without benefit of a Pilot Certificate is by
definition unsafe. The rules say so. And all our acquaintances who
dutifully carry their carefully laminated certificates are, of course, good
and safe pilots because their certificates are on their persons.

sigh.....