Launch Order

Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. I fly at a commercial operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and they too have been scheduled for a specific time. If a private ship is pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school plane needs to launch, they take precedence. I do a lot of hook up, not an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. Every one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a place for their trailer. Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt

On May 30, 10:19*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. *I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. * If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. *I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. *Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. * *Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

You've pretty much described how our local commercial operation does
it. Most of the time it works as planned but a problem arises when
the natural rhythm of soaring gets out of sync with the schedule.
It's tough to make gliders work to a schedule. If some people have
expectations otherwise, they can get irritated. Schedules just set
people up to be disappointed.

IMVHO, a better solution is a simple start queue operated on a first
come, first served basis. School gliders, rides, private ships get
just in line and launch in that order. A queue is easy to
understand. The rules are simple too. If a pilot isn't ready when
the tug is, he gets pushed out of line and goes to the rear. Don't
get in the queue unless you're ready to fly. Most of all, don't
'crash' the line.

XC types who want a noon launch can finesse the queue by entering it
at a time calculated to bring them to the front at noon. The queue
will be filled with XC gliders around mid-day but that's OK if it fits
everyone's expectations. Training and rides work better in the
smoother air of early morning and late afternoon anyway.

On May 30, 3:28*pm, bildan wrote:
On May 30, 10:19*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.









wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. *I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. * If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. *I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. *Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. * *Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

You've pretty much described how our local commercial operation does
it. *Most of the time it works as planned but a problem arises when
the natural rhythm of soaring gets out of sync with the schedule.
It's tough to make gliders work to a schedule. *If some people have
expectations otherwise, they can get irritated. *Schedules just set
people up to be disappointed.

IMVHO, a better solution is a simple start queue operated on a first
come, first served basis. *School gliders, rides, private ships get
just in line and launch in that order. *A queue is easy to
understand. *The rules are simple too. *If a pilot isn't ready when
the tug is, he gets pushed out of line and goes to the rear. *Don't
get in the queue unless you're ready to fly. *Most of all, don't
'crash' the line.

XC types who want a noon launch can finesse the queue by entering it
at a time calculated to bring them to the front at noon. * The queue
will be filled with XC gliders around mid-day but that's OK if it fits
everyone's expectations. *Training and rides work better in the
smoother air of early morning and late afternoon anyway.

our club launches on a first come first served basis too and it works
out fine. we rarely have more than about 2 or 3 waiting at a time
though.

On May 30, 11:19*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. *I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. * If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. *I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. *Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. * *Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

The owner of the tug obviously wants to keep his investment in gliders
and instructors working. Your post says this is is a commercial
operation, not a club or a charity, so the answer seems clear:
Business class. If you, mr. private glider, want a tow Right Now,
thereby idling my investment in a training glider, instructor, and
lowering my throughput of students, go for it, that will be $80. If
you want to pay $40, wait until the students rentals and rides are
done. Now everybody's happy.

(If the private gliders are still unhappy, start a club. Pitch in to
buy a towplane and lease it back to the commercial operator. Now you
get to go first in "your" towplane. I bet the occasional $80 tows will
soon start to look cheap!)

John Cochrane

aviationbanter.com wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. =

At our club in the Uk it is first come first served for both aerotow and
winch. If it gets busy we pull out an extra tug or winch.
However if it looks like a good cross country day we set up a grid similar
to a competition grid and when conditions are sutable launch them all as
quickly as possible using all our tugs.
Typically this takes about 45min for 60 gliders.
This short break from training or trial lessons normally keeps everyone
happy

aviationbanter.com wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. =

At our club in the Uk it is first come first served for both aerotow and
winch. If it gets busy we pull out an extra tug or winch.
However if it looks like a good cross country day we set up a grid similar
to a competition grid and when conditions are sutable launch them all as
quickly as possible using all our tugs.
Typically this takes about 45min for 60 gliders.
This short break from training or trial lessons normally keeps everyone
happy

You've pretty much described how our local commercial operation does
it. Most of the time it works as planned but a problem arises when
the natural rhythm of soaring gets out of sync with the schedule.
It's tough to make gliders work to a schedule. If some people have
expectations otherwise, they can get irritated. Schedules just set
people up to be disappointed.

IMVHO, a better solution is a simple start queue operated on a first
come, first served basis. School gliders, rides, private ships get
just in line and launch in that order. A queue is easy to
understand. The rules are simple too. If a pilot isn't ready when
the tug is, he gets pushed out of line and goes to the rear. Don't
get in the queue unless you're ready to fly. Most of all, don't
'crash' the line.

XC types who want a noon launch can finesse the queue by entering it
at a time calculated to bring them to the front at noon. The queue
will be filled with XC gliders around mid-day but that's OK if it fits
everyone's expectations. Training and rides work better in the
smoother air of early morning and late afternoon anyway.[/quote]

The simple start queue idea is a good one but remember, the commercial operator is trying to maximize the school rental/training/ride revenue producing function and still satisfy the private owners.

The real problem is a lack of people available to help out in the various tasks required. Towing a rental to the staging area, wing walkers or drivers, hookup crew and the like. It would be nice to have an extra tow pilot on occasion but the cost is most likely prohibitive. My guess is that many of these operations in this economy are running close to the margins. When they stop meeting the taxes, insurance, maintenance, salaries, upkeep and other fixed and variable expenses then we might find ourselves looking at a cow pasture. I don't want that to happen.

Walt

Glassholes??? It's not the construction of the glider that makes the
personality of the pilot...

I tow at a commercial operation three days a week and I don't know of any
specific rules for who gets towed first. It's always been first come, first
served. On the weekends there's a club operation and they provide their own
tow plane for members only. If there's a large queue, many times club
members will pay a bit extra for a commercial tow just to get into the air
at the time of their choice.

I used to fly and tow at a club in another state. The rule there was that,
if there was a long queue, you could pull out another tow plane (we had
three), make 10 tows, and pull your glider to the front of the launch line.
Yes, people complained when I did that, though they didn't complain about my
shortening the line.

OBTW, when I pull my glider out to fly, it's made of glass...


"Walt Connelly" wrote in message
...

Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. I fly at a commercial
operation and the priority for launch always goes to the school
gliders....this makes sense...the student has scheduled for a specific
time days in advance.... Next come the renal ships and glider rides and
they too have been scheduled for a specific time. If a private ship is
pointed down the runway, meaning they are ready for tow and a school
plane needs to launch, they take precedence. I do a lot of hook up, not
an employee just another glider pilot trying to be helpful but
occasionally one of the "glassholes" gets their panties in a wad. Every
one gets launched but perhaps as quickly as they might like.

The students, glider rides and rentals keep the operation open and pay
the bills to a greater degree than a private ship paying for a tow and a
place for their trailer. Any suggestions on this procedure?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

On May 31, 6:32*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:

The simple start queue idea is a good one but remember, the commercial
operator is trying to maximize the school rental/training/ride revenue
producing function and still satisfy the private owners.

Walt Connelly

Absolutely true - but there's a business concept called "enlightened
self-interest". It's been my experience those commercial operations
who try to make rigid schedules work are less successful than those
who simply try to do as much flying as possible every day.

That not to say some schedule finessing isn't a good idea. By
launching glider rides and training flights into mid-day turbulence,
the commercial operator risks "bad press" as customers relate their
unpleasant experience to friends, family and associates. A major
source of new business is word of mouth advertising but it cuts both
ways.

As a one-time instructor/ride pilot, I've seen it happen many times.
The happiest first-time customers were those who got the early and
late flights. If the flying day had been expanded an hour or so, a
mid-day launch window could have been assigned to private owners at
essentially no cost while improving customer relations.

Happy private owners will send their friends family and associates to
the commercial operator for still more word of mouth advertising.

Bill Daniels

On Mon, 30 May 2011 23:29:07 +0000, Nigel Pocock wrote:

aviationbanter.com wrote:
Just curious as to how it's done elsewhere. =

At our club in the Uk it is first come first served for both aerotow and
winch.

Where I fly, also UK, at busy times we run two winch queues: one for
training and trial flights in two seaters and the other for single seaters
and private two-place gliders. Both queues operate on a first-come, first
served basis. We tried using two winches but found little benefit from
that as in practice the main delay is from ab initio and trial flight
briefings: if both queues contain gliders and an instructor is busy
briefing, the single seat line gets launched until he's ready.

We have a separate first-come, first served aero-tow line, which is
usually served by one tug unless the queue is unusually long, when the
other tug also gets pulled out until the queue is cleared.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |