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ClearVav vs. LXNav



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 11th 18, 06:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RW[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it..
UH


6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world.
Ryszard


Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant.

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on.

best,
Evan Ludeman


Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers.
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on..

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.

  #32  
Old February 11th 18, 10:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-8, RW wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it.
UH

6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world..
Ryszard


Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant.

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development.. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on.

best,
Evan Ludeman


Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers.
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on.

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.


OK. By chance did marijuana just become legal where you live?
  #33  
Old February 12th 18, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RW[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:56:03 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-8, RW wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it.
UH

6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world.
Ryszard

Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant.

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on.

best,
Evan Ludeman


Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers..
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on.

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.


OK. By chance did marijuana just become legal where you live?


Not really ,only by prescription.
I'm just a little pilot, hoping one day, to be good as you .
Oops, I didn't catch your name ?
Ryszard Krolikowski from little state of New Jersey
  #34  
Old February 12th 18, 03:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Blake Seese 3Y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

Hi Gerry,
Full disclosure, I have not flown with either system. I'm flying with an Oudie hooked to a 302 right now, so pretty outdated. A very good soaring pilot and good friend told me years ago to get a system developed by people who speak your native language because it makes the learning curve much easier.. I have found that to be very true. I would just go through the setup a little bit on both and see which one is more intuitive for you, since both systems are technically very good.
  #35  
Old February 12th 18, 01:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 668
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

maanantai 12. helmikuuta 2018 4.33.45 UTC+2 Blake Seese 3Y kirjoitti:
Hi Gerry,
Full disclosure, I have not flown with either system. I'm flying with an Oudie hooked to a 302 right now, so pretty outdated. A very good soaring pilot and good friend told me years ago to get a system developed by people who speak your native language because it makes the learning curve much easier.


Well that's great news for Slovenian gliderpilot population out there!
  #36  
Old February 12th 18, 03:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Grillo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

Hi Gerry,
I can give you a perspective on LX support. I purchased and installed a LX9050 two seasons ago. Last summer I developed a screen issue where the colors would change in flight, stay screwed up for 15 minutes or so then go back to normal. I contacted LXnav and they said to send them the unit and they would repair it free of charge. I sent them the unit in early December and I had it back in 30 days. Not bad considering the holiday break.

I will say that the 9000 series does take some time to learn because of all the features it has. But once you get it setup the way you like, its works great. I would suggest getting the biggest screen that will fit in your new ship.

See you in Albert Lea.
Don

  #37  
Old February 12th 18, 05:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 304
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

As noted in an earlier post - I have flown extensively with both the CN and LX units. In response to Blake's comment about "native language" I think that this was very true about 10 or so years ago - and particularly a problem with the LX 7000 and 7007 IGC Pro series machines. But the problem was largely resolved with the new 8000 and 9000 series - which are much better programs and intuitive regardless of user's language . The CN program was developed by people with a strong background in the Cambridge Aero computers and seemed very intuitive by pilots with that background.

It really seems that CN is becoming the standard for US gliding and LX for European gliding. That may be a factor in where you want to eventually sell your glider. It's not surprising that customer support is good on the continents where the machines are built. In my experience both are good machines - but they take a different approach and serve a different set of pilot expectations.
ROY
  #38  
Old February 12th 18, 06:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:56:03 PM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-8, RW wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it.
UH

6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world.
Ryszard

Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant.

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on.

best,
Evan Ludeman


Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers..
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on.

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.


OK. By chance did marijuana just become legal where you live?


RE-read what Ryszard wrote, slowly this time. It will make sense, especially if you have ever had the experience of buying an expensive piece of equipment and find that the manufacturer soon stops supporting it (or goes out of business).
  #39  
Old February 12th 18, 09:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 962
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 12:02:39 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:56:03 PM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-8, RW wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it.
UH

6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world.
Ryszard

Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant..

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on.

best,
Evan Ludeman

Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers.
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on.

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.


OK. By chance did marijuana just become legal where you live?


RE-read what Ryszard wrote, slowly this time. It will make sense, especially if you have ever had the experience of buying an expensive piece of equipment and find that the manufacturer soon stops supporting it (or goes out of business).


For the record...

When CN2 was released, CN offered to replace -- at no charge -- any CN1 bought in previous year with a brand new CN2 with a new 2 year warranty. All other CN1 owners got a great upgrade deal, regardless of whether they were the original purchaser. That upgrade deal put a solid floor under the price of a used CN1.

Who else does this?

But go right ahead and pile on.

Evan Ludeman / T8

  #40  
Old February 13th 18, 12:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 3:11:15 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 12:02:39 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:56:03 PM UTC-6, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:06:04 PM UTC-8, RW wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 9:08:00 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:28:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 2:14:04 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:05:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:35:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-5, RW wrote:
On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:31:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Gary is absolutely correct. The proof is in seeing progress and there has not been much for people outside of our team working at ClearNav to see, but we have been working busily, and over the next few months you'll start to see more things happening. We've have not done the best job at communicating what is going on, so to give some idea what we have been up to, we have...

Moved final assembly manufacturing to Williams, California, including training manufacturing staff
Shipping new products and conducting repairs/service for current customers
Made multiple changes to improve manufacturability
Recently manufactured a production run of ClearNav Air Data Computers for our variometers and a new run of nexus boards came out of manufacturing last week
Purchased and installed a new laser cutter and 3D printer to improve manufacturing (and packaging and prototyping)
3D scanned parts, producing 3D CAD models and test pieces

And of course software is the heart of everything, and we have rejuvenated that work, there is ongoing software development happening:
ClearNav Variometer software development by David Masson
ClearNav Navigator software development by Chip Garner and Andy Hogben.

We are working on cleaning up ClearNav marketing and improving the outdated website.

We've done a lot of work to understand the glider computer business. The most important thing that we can do is make sure ClearNav is successful so it is around for many years to come. We are well aware of the history with Cambridge Aero, and being a pioneer, even one as good as Cambridge is not enough. We are proud to be associated with the legacy of Cambridge Aero Instruments. We purchased ClearNav exactly because we believe in the products and their design philosophy want to see them have a long successful future.

We are especially proud of our loyal customer base.. It is heartening to know that at least 7 of the top ten contestants of the US 18m nationals choose to fly with Clear Nav .

We do enjoy user feedback, please post on the ClearNav forum at ClearNav.net your suggestions.

Please come and talk with us at our booth at the SSA Convention in Reno.


Rex Mayes
ClearNav

LX continues software upgrades to older models,
ClearNav seemed to left owners of CN1 forgotten.
If someone spends over $2000 for CN2 now, and you develop CN3 next year....

Ryszard

Ryszard... you left out the fact that at CN2 intro, everyone with a CN1 was offered the chance to upgrade their existing CN to CN2 for $1000. New processor, new screen, new software, new baro calibration and a new 2 year warranty. It's true, they didn't send a white gloved tech in a Bentley out to your airport to service it in your glider while you waited, but come on...

The truth is, software development ended on CN1 because CN1 hardware could not support what needed doing.

best regards,
Evan Ludeman

AAAAnd
ClearNav 1 works very well. It is just slow when integrated with Flarm.
UH

Just for the record, I flew little with LX9000, a lot with CN2(2.5 years) and a lot my favorite CN1(7.5 years).I don't see speed difference between CN1 and CN2 connected to PowerFlarm or FlarmMouse.
When you have to switch battery power on task CN1 restarts and remembers everything and you still have one flight in a logger.
If same with CN2 , for fast switch it stays on(big capacitor in the regulator), but if few seconds , you loose previous part of the flight, you dont have a start and logger has 2 flights.
My CN1 never freezes,but back seat of my friends Arcus, CN2 freezes , you have to restart, then you loose all previous flight.
Having all the same inputs in front CN2 like back CN1, 25 miles out on final,
they differ 1200 ft arrival altitude, and this continues till 2 miles out,
when CN2 rapidly changes its over optimistic mind and starts to agree with CN1.
Final glide algorithm of CN1 is main reason, it is my favorite.
This could be only unit specific feeling.
If one has problem with CN in US ,it can be repaired in 3 days(over night shipping).
If one has problem with LX9000 in US , will have to wait 1 month.
If one is new to CN in US, will have min. 5 pilots at the field to help.
If one is new to LX9000 in US, will not find anybody at the field to help.
Its opposite in Europe.
Ryszard

My experiences are a little different.
Had a few freezes with CN1 and none with CN2.
I would guess maybe settings somewhere were different leading to different final glide info.
CN1, when tested with Flarm on and off, showed quicker screen changes and such when Flarm was not consuming processor power. One of the reasons I changed my second after testing first.
I agree that it does not take long for a newbie to get the hang of it.
UH

6 competitions we compare CN1 with CN2, all identical settings.
CN2 disagrees on long final with CN1 more if speed on final is higher,
and less if is lower.
It feels like only because we go over 100kts CN2 thinks we should pull up,
just 2 miles before finish to gain extra 1200ft. witch is forbidden and very dangerous for other finishers.
In less than 2 miles to finish CN2 gives up
with its crazy idea and perfectly matches CN1 calculations.

Evan, if you would believe me , would you still upgrade, would you look for white glove tech in Bentley ?
I know, not everything could be matched in both CNs, but doing zero means CN1
its forgotten. Same excuse will work when next year CN3 shows up.
Telling customers publicly, 3 years old ,over $2000 equipment is garbage is not good for future sells. LX understands this, keeps writing upgrades 3 generations back.Maybe limited software upgrades, but it feels good.
Tesla electric cars go even further back, keeping up with very first models also maybe limited upgrades. Thousands of people prepay for their model 3.
People vote with their monies.
I'm in petroleum equipment business.
There is 3 times more profit in repairs and upgrades than in sales of new equipment. 20 years old stuff still gets software upgrades in my world.
Ryszard

Yeah, but in the personal computer, PDA and cell phone biz things are a little different, no? Still reading r.a.s. on a Win 98 system with a US Robotics modem running at 56K. Still got that metro-sexy Motorola flip phone on your belt? Didn't think so. I still cut my grass and blow snow with a 1968 Gravely walk behind tractor. Works great. Throws snow over the power lines (yes, really). Great fun. I still think of the engine as "new" (I replaced it in June 2000). Different technology stream, not relevant.

CN2 kicks ass. If any particular CN2 doesn't, it's due to some combination of setup problem, failure to update the software (there were some regrettable buggy early releases) or a much less likely hardware problem that really ought to be fixed. 2 year warranty and all that.

The final glide algorithm was not changed between CN1 and CN2. This is user setup.

There *are* some things in CN2 and CNv that beg for further development. Happily, Rex seems to be moving in the direction of taking this on..

best,
Evan Ludeman

Did declining sells, forced hands change?Its depressing watching profits melt.
If yes,why sells declined ?
Maybe Rex knows why and knows how fix it ?
Maybe was silly politics with the previous generation CN ?
We dont like high air pressure, we like it rising.
We dont like pure oxygen, we like % of O2 rising.
We are not forever happy with a lot of money , we happy when we make little more, time after time.
We are not forever happy with perfect at the time instrument, we like it get improved from time to time.We get used to.We became loyal.
CN2 is maybe 3 years around.
Throwing CN1 owners under the bus will not make them loyal CN customers.
I know few.
They think now :TopHat or XC, because they are not trained by previous hands to be loyal.
CN2 owners learn from CN1 experience.
Maybe this was only previous hands mistake ?
I don't know the answers.Here is little lesson.
The most popular gas station tank monitor TLS350 was build in 1984, keeps getting improvements.You can use your candy crusher/smart phone and watch your tank inventory and sensors, sitting in the dentist waiting room on other side of the globe.Because of loyal customers, Veeder Root is the richest in this industry in the world and purchased biggest dispenser manufacturers in the world, biggest STP turbine manufacturers in the world, and on and on.

Ryszard , yes,flip phone user, choosing professional knife over Swiss army knife in my kitchen, dont have to play crashing candies, or take a picture of my meal for FB before I start eating.

OK. By chance did marijuana just become legal where you live?


RE-read what Ryszard wrote, slowly this time. It will make sense, especially if you have ever had the experience of buying an expensive piece of equipment and find that the manufacturer soon stops supporting it (or goes out of business).


For the record...

When CN2 was released, CN offered to replace -- at no charge -- any CN1 bought in previous year with a brand new CN2 with a new 2 year warranty. All other CN1 owners got a great upgrade deal, regardless of whether they were the original purchaser. That upgrade deal put a solid floor under the price of a used CN1.

Who else does this?

But go right ahead and pile on.

Evan Ludeman / T8


I am sure we will see ClearNav become more successful internationally with customer centric view Rex has. No reflection on the current owner but having an instrument go out of support in 3-4 years in aviation is ridiculous. The original CN1 had poor hardware from the start. Some functions were so slow that it was the reason I switched to LX9000. Simple things like finding out about nearby landing options took forever and the limitation of only displaying 100 characters of airport description was ridiculous. The user interface in 90% was excellent. In the other 10% there were things that were simply a little annoying and things that should have been fixed long time ago, like the 100 character limit. I am glad ClearNav is in new hands now! I would consider it if I were buying a new instrument, although LX9000 is an excellent instrument as well and while not as easy to use as ClearNav it is not difficult to use either.
 




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