Resource for choosing a plane?

Thus why I also suggested the Turbo Dakota.

Personally, I'd stay away from that particular model.

It's common to think that the Turbo Dakota used a turbo-charged version of
the six-cylinder O-540 that is standard in all other PA28-235/236s.
Unfortunately, Piper opted to use the Continental TSIO-360 -- a
four-cylinder engine -- and it has been much maligned as being an engine
that is "pushed too hard" and thus doesn't last long.

Here is a telling excerpt from the "Buyer's Guide" on the Cherokee 235/236
owners group website:

"In the opinion of most, the only model to stay away from is the Turbo
Dakota
(PA28-201T). There were only 89 built in 1979 and they were plagued with
engine problems from the Continental TSIO-360. One member felt that
although the Turbo Dakota is much-maligned, due to its reportedly unreliable
engine, under certain circumstances it may be worth a look (i.e. you really
need to fly high). He met one Turbo Dakota driver who claimed that with
proper engine management, he had experienced no trouble at all."

That's what I call "damned with faint praise."
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The PA28-235 is a great plane, but is this true in Colorado Springs?
In the summer?

Actually, yes.

My Cherokee 180 serves as a wonderful 2-place in the Midwest, but when
I visited Boulder in the summer, takeoff and climbout were less than
spectacular, and I was 200lbs under gross.

Did you lean the engine for departure?

There is a DRAMATIC difference between taking off with a properly
leaned engine (above 3000 MSL) and an engine running full rich.

Yes, I teach mountain flying in the Cherokee-180 in the Colorado
Rockys.

The Colorado Pilots Association will present the mountain flying
course in May an August this year at Centennial Airport (APA), south
of Denver.

I am available for mountain flight instruction (your airplane or
mine) any time, at your convenience.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

Combining my response to several posters, all with great information. I'm
"new" here, yet this group is already giving me a mile when I asked for an
inch--thanks everyone for the advice! I've responded individually to a
couple of posters who touched on some points I have a specific follow-up
about, but I appreciate ALL of the responses.

Careful--you guys keep being nice to me, I may stick around....
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

wrote in message ...
The PA28-235 is a great plane, but is this true in Colorado Springs?
In the summer?

Actually, yes.

My Cherokee 180 serves as a wonderful 2-place in the Midwest, but when
I visited Boulder in the summer, takeoff and climbout were less than
spectacular, and I was 200lbs under gross.

Did you lean the engine for departure?

There is a DRAMATIC difference between taking off with a properly
leaned engine (above 3000 MSL) and an engine running full rich.

Yes, I teach mountain flying in the Cherokee-180 in the Colorado
Rockys.

The Colorado Pilots Association will present the mountain flying
course in May an August this year at Centennial Airport (APA), south
of Denver.

I am available for mountain flight instruction (your airplane or
mine) any time, at your convenience.

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

Douglas Paterson wrote:



Aviation Consumer Airplane buyers guide.
www.aviationconsumer.com
Michelle

"Douglas Paterson" wrote:

Thoughts:
It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for
lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that!

A turbo Cesnna 210 would fit the bill for everything but fuel economy. A
turbo 182RG would be a good cheaper, slower alternative. Given your high
altitude surroundings, a turbo would seem to be a must.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:28:17 -0700, "Douglas Paterson"
wrote:

So, I've decided to go for my first airplane. As I get started looking for
"the" airplane, I'm hoping I can find some help here in narrowing my
choices. The more I look, the more overwhelmed I get. I'm starting to
think that finding & buying the damn thing will be anticlimactic--deciding
*what* to buy is the hard part!!

Actually, deciding which plane to buy is the easy part! The hard part
is finding one with the right features (panel, paint, interior,
engine), good condition, and at the right price.

What I'd really like to find is some sort of direct comparison tool--like
you find in an auto magazine, say--such as a table with columns listing
features,

See risingup.com for a list of manufacturers performance claims.

Thoughts:
It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for
lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that!

With the high DA's I would consider a turbo. A turbo Lance will
probably be the lowest cost 6-place turbo.

You are correct to be more concerned about op costs than acquisition
costs. Minus cost of money, you will get your acquisition costs back
when you sell. Op costs can be dramatic if maintenance is considered.
I imagine you will pay $2k/year for insurance on a $100-125k
6-seater. Fuel costs close to $4.00/gallon @ 16gph = $64/hr. Hangars
are $2-600 per month at many airports. Factoryengines.com lists an
overhaul on a TIO540 engine (for the Turbo Lance) at $40k. Annuals
and misc maintenance will probably be several thousand more per year.
Bottom line, you can easily spend $15-20k/year owning, maintaining,
and operating a complex 6-place.

Good luck, and have fun searching!
Nathan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
[snip]
You are correct to be more concerned about op costs than acquisition
costs. Minus cost of money, you will get your acquisition costs back
when you sell.

My thoughts exactly--that's why my $100K figure is "soft," more of a comfort
number than anything else.

Factoryengines.com lists an
overhaul on a TIO540 engine (for the Turbo Lance) at $40k.

Now there's a number that kinda scares me--that's at least twice the amount
of any overhaul estimates I've seen in my (admittedly limited) reading. Is
that a function of the turbo??

As I said, my "requirements" are all written in Jell-O. I'm *just* getting
started--really, this discussion is the most in-depth I've gotten so far.
If turbo is the only way I can get the heavy lift I want from my
high-altitude location, but it's prohibitively expensive, well, I may have
to revise my requirements.... That goes for everything I listed in my
original post.... That Cherokee 140 for $25K is looking better and better
at this point!!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

("Douglas Paterson" wrote)
Thoughts:
It sounds like I want a Mooney for speed & fuel economy, a Dakota for
lifting, and Bonanza for size--or something like that! That brings me
back to my original request, for a means to make direct comparisons
between the various choices out there--I'm having trouble determining what
& how I need to make trade-offs without that sort of tool....


Navion?

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an29.htm
http://www.warbirdalley.com/l17.htm

It'll lift almost as much as a Dakota and you'll have 'almost' a warbird -
if you choose to paint it as such. g

http://www.navionskies.com/Photos/Navions-Tour%20026.jpg

http://www.navionskies.com/Photos/Navions-Tour%20027.jpg

http://www.navionskies.com/Photos/Navions-Tour%20004.jpg


Montblack

Just buy whatever you really want. It's going to put you in the
poorhouse anyway.

Ya can't go wrong with a Citabria, Dcathlon, or a T-6....

Montblack wrote:

Navion?

Book cruise of 138 knots. Might do better re-engined. Margy?

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.