Cessna Citation N238JP Runway Incursion at KUDD

I didn't see a windsock, nor do we have what was said on the radio during
the
five minutes prior. With a runway that long the jets can accept a minor
tailwind
and save bucks on fuel.

It's easy for radio transmissions to get stepped on. You and the Citation
may
well have been transmitting at the same time. I don't know of any unicom
operators who keep a tape.

Unless a departure frequency is available, IFR departures from an
uncontrolled
field are subject to a void time. A mile long taxi could put you pass the
void time
and necessitate another phone call to obtain another clearance.

If I heard somebody announcing entering an opposite or intersecting runway,
I'd
be on the radio pronto to say I'm rolling rwy xx at yy knots.

Just because a radio call was made does not magically ensure everybody
heard
it.

I'm glad nothing got bent (other than pride/attitudes), all are around to discuss/argue.

/thread, before the FAA gets involved........

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 2:30:06 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
I didn't see a windsock, nor do we have what was said on the radio during
the
five minutes prior. With a runway that long the jets can accept a minor
tailwind
and save bucks on fuel.

It's easy for radio transmissions to get stepped on. You and the Citation
may
well have been transmitting at the same time. I don't know of any unicom
operators who keep a tape.

Unless a departure frequency is available, IFR departures from an
uncontrolled
field are subject to a void time. A mile long taxi could put you pass the
void time
and necessitate another phone call to obtain another clearance.

If I heard somebody announcing entering an opposite or intersecting runway,
I'd
be on the radio pronto to say I'm rolling rwy xx at yy knots.

Just because a radio call was made does not magically ensure everybody
heard
it.

Last time I checked, my local city/county airport was recording CTAF/Unicom and have released content to local news media when incidents/accidents occurred.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 5:04:32 PM UTC-8, wrote:
A snotty Citation driver tries to blame me for HIS runway incursion during my takeoff. Unfortunately, I turned on the cam just after making my call and crossing the runway hold line to take the active (you can see my fingers on the cam in the opening frames). He claims that I never made a call, but later admits that he didn't hear my call--which is entirely different. The Phenom Jet who landed just before our departure (visible eastbound on the taxiway at 00:43) heard and acknowledged one of my three calls, so I don't know why the Citation couldn't hear me. Note how quick the Citation driver is to publicly assign blame to me. He then calls the FBO like a butt-hurt girl to wrongly report me.

I'd normally just let this whole thing slide, but this guy was such a jerk and clearly wants to make a big deal of it, so I decided to post it to YouTube. His boss will be getting a detailed email detailing his dangerous attitude and a YouTube link as soon as I trace the N number.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=Yw--2gDjaV0

Some more info:

My decision to take off on 10 was based on wind direction which was 3-4kts out of the east. The private/charter jets at KUDD generally ignore the wind until it gets up over about 10kts, preferring to take off and land in whatever direction is most convenient and economical for them. My Ximango is only 80hp, and while not particularly squirrely for a taildragger, it can be hard to get it back once you get out of shape; therefore I prefer to take off into the wind.

KUDD is a privately owned public-use airport, and unicom is not recorded; however, on checking with them today, they confirm that I did make my call as is my habit. Actually, I called once to inform all of taxiing to 10, again to coordinate with the Phenom Jet on final for 10 ("I'll hold till you're clear, then take 10 for departure.") and a third time just before departure. Ample opportunity for everyone concerned to know what I was doing...

The Citation had been holding in the run up area of 28 for about 15 minutes and had announced his intention to "be there for a while." My guess is that he was talking to clearance delivery and/or programming his nav, which could have prevented him from registering my call--even if his ears heard it, his brain might not have! Not sure why he chose to do his housekeeping at runway 28 instead of on the ramp 500 feet away... the little Cessna behind him sure was patient!

I can think of lots of reasons that radio communications might fail: volume down, squelch up too high, wrong frequency, stepped on, mic to far from lips, PTT button not fully depressed, mic and/or earphone jack not fully plugged in, audio panel miss set, and the rest of you can probably add many more possibilities to the list. I feel that it is important to note that radio comms, while a boon to safety, do not relieve any pilot of his/her duty to maintain vigilance to see and avoid others--ever! I made my call AND cleared the runway visually before starting my roll.

With regards to the actual incursion, I don't think his nose ever actually crossed the runway edge--but it was darn close! The distance from the hold-short line to the runway is about 90 feet. He was certainly completely beyond the hold short line, which at a tower-controlled airport would have for sure gotten him into hot water with ATC/FAA.

Some of you have wondered why I didn't abort my takeoff. To be absolutely honest with you, it took me a few moments to realize what was happening, and by the time I did, I was in the air and could clearly see the Citation. He completed his call at 0:25 (just after my tail came up),and we were off the ground at 0:30. It seems like forever from the comfort of your easy chair, but it happens pretty fast in real life.

My beef with the Citation pilot is not that we had a potentially dangerous encounter. After all, its aviation and things DO happen despite our best efforts. My beef with him is the rapidity and absolute certainty of his judgement that it was all the other guy's (my) fault, and his petty and unproductive call to unicom. As I'm based out of KUDD, I'm jealous of my reputation there as a safe and considerate pilot.

On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 8:04:32 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A snotty Citation driver tries to blame me for HIS runway incursion during my takeoff. Unfortunately, I turned on the cam just after making my call and crossing the runway hold line to take the active (you can see my fingers on the cam in the opening frames). He claims that I never made a call, but later admits that he didn't hear my call--which is entirely different. The Phenom Jet who landed just before our departure (visible eastbound on the taxiway at 00:43) heard and acknowledged one of my three calls, so I don't know why the Citation couldn't hear me. Note how quick the Citation driver is to publicly assign blame to me. He then calls the FBO like a butt-hurt girl to wrongly report me.

I'd normally just let this whole thing slide, but this guy was such a jerk and clearly wants to make a big deal of it, so I decided to post it to YouTube. His boss will be getting a detailed email detailing his dangerous attitude and a YouTube link as soon as I trace the N number.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=Yw--2gDjaV0

I really do not understand why such a post is here on this forum? Seems to me that you have grossly over estimated your reputation. Maybe you are just a legend in your own mind! There is nothing to gain by posting such events or so called events. Bob

Sounds both are making a big deal over not much of a big deal.