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Best modern jet fighter



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 15th 04, 07:07 PM
Holger Schaefer
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Ragnar wrote:

[Mig-25]
Its an interceptor, which is what the F-15 was also designed to be. Recce
models of the 25 came AFTER.


Well yes, an interceptor. But designed to intercept heavy bombers and
therefore for an entirely different role than the F-15, no?

H. Schaefer
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  #12  
Old September 15th 04, 08:43 PM
Icarus
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I see you have studied at the John Tarver school of Usenet skills.

Perhaps Ragnar should have learnt to read between the lines instead of
dwelling on a single fact...the way he manages to miss the point is far
beyond anything I've seen...Not much proper arguments from his side...guess
the John Tarver school can't teach you how to be intelligent, only short
sighted...if that's the case than Mr. Ragnar is an excellent student...

Oh...almost forgot...of over five MiG 25 variants only one is classified as
an interceptor...don't bzzz off too soon, you don't want to go off half
cocked...


  #13  
Old September 15th 04, 08:54 PM
Nele VII
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Ragnar wrote in message ...

snipped generally acurrate stuff

Its an interceptor, which is what the F-15 was also designed to be. Recce
models of the 25 came AFTER.


Err... yes and no, equaly distributed. According to the Deputy of the Chief
Constructor Valentin Aleksandrovich Stepanov, official history of MiG-25
design is:

- 1959, research for a FIGHTER capable to intercept A-12;
- 1960, general design solution ;
- 1961, March 10-A.I. Mikoyan reported about -starting- of the design
prototype E-155;
- 1962, Mockup commision assembled for RECONNAISSANCE version;
- 1963, December-very first prototype brought out from the factory;
- 1964, MARCH 6-first flight of the RECONNAISSANCE prototype (E-155R-1) by
Alexandar Fedotov.
- 1964, SEPTEMBER 9-first flight of the FIGHTER prototype (E-155P-1).

Now, having in mind that there were no major -aerodynamical- changes in
MiG-25P/R, the "mockup" commision, probably, mainly had to deal with
arrangement of the nose-installed equipment while the prototype was in
construction-maybe even more for the convenience of the flight test
equipment placement in the "steel" nose of R version. Both were tested for
flight performance (needed for a fighter) and modified accordingly-the
aerodynamic/mechanical flaws were the same on the both version.

The installation of "Smerch" fighter radar was known from Tu-128 "Fiddler"
and MiG YE-151/152 prototypes and I speculate it was a "no big deal" to
build a "functional" fighter prototype (or at least with ballast and test
equipment), but when the R-60 test missilet firing begun, the thrust/exaust
and assymetrical load when that huge and hevy missile(s) was fired created
flight problems. To rectify this, automatic compensation of the tail
surfaces was added on a fighter prototype-which was probably retained on
both serial fighter and recce versions (since the simmilar compensation is
needed for a bomb dropping on RB version.

So, MiG-25 was designed to be a fighter, but a -recconnaissance- prototype
flew first!

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA



  #14  
Old September 15th 04, 09:09 PM
Nele VII
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Icarus wrote in message ...
Yes, a nice air show demonstration. Whats the COMBAT record of the Su-27
again?


That was a dogfight simulation between Su 27 and F-15...if those had been
real missiles and not a simulated ones F-15 would have ended up in flames.

Yet the F-15 has a 120-0 kill record, mostly against Soviet airplanes.
Hmmmm. . . .


FYI a Yugoslavian MiG 29 shot down one F-15...so much for unchallenged
record-nothing is perfect, it all depends on pilot...In 99% of cases,

Soviet
airplanes were never flown by Soviet/Russian pilots but by pilots who often
lacked proper training...Not even the Soviet instructors could make a
difference and get through to these pilots-as you probably know, Soviets
gave their planes to every country with similar regime-that doesn't mean
they were flown by proper people (and I won't even mention how poorly those
planes were taken care of)...Different cultures give different pilots-NATO
conducted research which showed that different countries had different
accident percentages-it had a lot to do with pilot skill...Norwegian pilots
are somewhat different than the US ones, same thing is for Russian/Chinese
etc...


Ikarus, nemoj da lupas! Ja sam bio aktivan na yu.forum.aeronautics godinama,
znam ljude, pratim avijaciju i nisam nikad cuo da je Yu 29-tka oborila F-15!
Ko je, pobogu, bio pilot? Kako to da niko pametan nije objavio na YFA?

Sorry to everybody, native language "rubbing" on the Yu MiG29/F-15 stuff.

FWIW, there has been-uncorfirmed-rumour-about four Ethyopian Su-27 and four
Erithreyan MiG-29 "clash", ending in three to zip (or was it 2-0?) victory
for Su-27s. Reportedly, pilots were Russian (Su-27) and Ukrainian (MiG-29)
instructors/mecenaries. Weapons used: R-27s (all missed), R-73.


Please, detail the difference for us.



Icarus won't provide one because there isn't any and that I wrote him in
our native language.

I'm sure you know how to use google, you'll probably find some mpeg's of
Somersault and other maneuvres yourself... If not, here is a good link to
start with:
http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAP.html

Yes, very interesting that the Soviets designed ejection seats that way -
almost as if they assumed from the beginning that their planes would get
shot down in droves.


I guess safety and human lives mean nothing to you...


Icarus, if you want to make a point then look Google yourself and you will
find that K-36DM WAS evaluated by US and it has been found that it is
absolutely superior to ACES-II. Also, there was some speculation about
possible licence-production. True or not, -We'll see that in the series
production F-22 ;-) .


I note it wasn't an F-15.
I see the F-15s shot down 3 MiG-25s. How many F-15s did the Mig-25s

shoot
down? Oh, whats that? ZERO, you say. Hmmmm . .


FYI-MiG 25 was primarily a Soviet version of SR 71, it isn't a
fighter...there were some versions that had been used as interceptors
however it was MiG 31 that was built for that specific role, not the MiG
25... I had chosen to compare MiG 25 and F-15 (and they actually can't be
compared-recon./fighter) only to show nothing is perfect and
invunerable...you somehow missed the point...Once again, my bet is on the

Su
27 family, not the MiG's.


Icarus, there have been -rumours- about MiG-25 victory over F-15
(Syria/Israel). But your stating that MiG-25 IS NOT a fighter plane is a
pure nonsense because:

-MiG-25 is a FIGHTER but is built in a recce version as well;
-shot down an F/-18 in Sesert Storm 1 (confirmed by US sources);
-Iraqis had ACES flying MiG-25 during Iran-Iraq war-moreover, it was an
"elite" unit (accorting to Tom Cooper), shooting down everything from F-5Es
, F-4Ds to F-14As (and vice-versa, of course).

Nemoj, co'ce, da se brukas...

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA







  #15  
Old September 16th 04, 07:18 AM
Ragnar
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"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
I guess you totally don't get sarcasm. Thanks for playing.

Bzzzzz! Wrong answer. Try again.

I see you have studied at the John Tarver school of Usenet skills.


Awwwwww, did his little feelings get hurt with the truth?


You mean my little feelings? LOL no. I have seen plenty worse manners than
yours before.

I merely observed that you and the much-missed JT seem to share a lot of
vocabulary in common.


Except that I'm not an answer-bot like Tarver.


  #16  
Old September 16th 04, 07:21 AM
Ragnar
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"Icarus" wrote in message
...

Oh...almost forgot...of over five MiG 25 variants only one is classified

as
an interceptor...don't bzzz off too soon, you don't want to go off half
cocked...


I see you failed to mention that the MiG-25 was never developed to be a
competitor of the SR-71. The first model was specifically designed to be an
interceptor. All other models were afterthoughts. And even as
afterthoughts, they were never intended nor used as competitors to the
SR-71. They didn't have the range, ceiling, speed, or sensors to compete.

Like I said befo Bzzzzzt! Wrong answer. Try again.


  #17  
Old September 16th 04, 07:24 AM
Ragnar
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"Nele VII" wrote in message
...


Ragnar wrote in message ...

snipped generally acurrate stuff

Its an interceptor, which is what the F-15 was also designed to be.

Recce
models of the 25 came AFTER.


Err... yes and no, equaly distributed. According to the Deputy of the

Chief
Constructor Valentin Aleksandrovich Stepanov, official history of MiG-25
design is:

- 1959, research for a FIGHTER capable to intercept A-12;
- 1960, general design solution ;
- 1961, March 10-A.I. Mikoyan reported about -starting- of the design
prototype E-155;
- 1962, Mockup commision assembled for RECONNAISSANCE version;


Equally distributed? Your own post says different. The interceptor came
first in development.


  #18  
Old September 16th 04, 02:09 PM
Icarus
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They didn't have the range, ceiling, speed, or sensors to compete.

Well, enlight me, guess you could tell me max height and speed MiG 25 can
develop... It shouldn't pose a problem for you...


  #19  
Old September 16th 04, 02:17 PM
Icarus
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Nemoj, co'ce, da se brukas...

Ma ne mogu pustit covjeka da uporno zdvaja nad time kako je F-15 najjebeniji
avion na kugli zemaljskoj...inace, vijest da je YU 29 srusila F 15 nasao sam
na nekoj stranici, al hebi ga, ne mogu odgovarati za autenticnost-ti ces to
malo bolje znat...kod nas nisu napadali. A sto se K 36 tice znam da je vojna
stampa uvijek tvrdila kako ne postoji bolje sjedalo, tako je barem bilo pred
2 godine, ne mogu ni ja pratit svaku sitnicu... Pozdrav!


  #20  
Old September 17th 04, 12:05 AM
Ragnar
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"Icarus" wrote in message
...
They didn't have the range, ceiling, speed, or sensors to compete.


Well, enlight me, guess you could tell me max height and speed MiG 25 can
develop... It shouldn't pose a problem for you...


You can Google as well as I. And you made the assertion that the Mig-25 was
analagous to the SR-71. YOU prove it.


 




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