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Aileron inboard edge sealing



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 2nd 16, 06:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piotr Jaszczuk
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Posts: 4
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

Hi all,

I've found enough info on the internet about advantages of sealing all
control surfaces with mylar tape but I'm struggling a bit to find
anything about benefits of sealing inboard edge of aileron gap with a
plate fitted to wing.
Here is the link to picture that illustrates what I'm talking about
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...s6LsyrxNS_9MTj
NZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

brgds
Piotrek

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  #2  
Old March 2nd 16, 06:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,034
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 12:30:09 PM UTC-5, Piotr Jaszczuk wrote:
Hi all,

I've found enough info on the internet about advantages of sealing all
control surfaces with mylar tape but I'm struggling a bit to find
anything about benefits of sealing inboard edge of aileron gap with a
plate fitted to wing.
Here is the link to picture that illustrates what I'm talking about
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...s6LsyrxNS_9MTj
NZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

brgds
Piotrek


I believe they're usually called a "fence". As to whether or not they're needed, I think some depends on the wing.

What ship do you have?
  #3  
Old March 2nd 16, 07:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piotr Jaszczuk
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Posts: 4
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

At 17:50 02 March 2016, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:

I believe they're usually called a "fence". As to whether or not they're
needed, I think some depends on the wing.

What ship do you have?


You might be right with the name
My ship is ASW 19B like the one on the picture.

Brgds

  #4  
Old March 4th 16, 10:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Robert M
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Posts: 25
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

If you do a lot of thermaling they likely will show some benefit in a slightly faster roll rate. However in cruise if you are not flying absolutely in trim they will shed a vortex that just creates drag. It may be better to make the gap as small as practical and have the two sides of the gap smooth and parallel. The ASW-19 wing is very flexable; closing the gap fully or even almost fully will result in binding or even locked ailerons due to the flex of the wing.

Robert Mudd
Composite Aircraft Repair
Moriarty, New Mexico USA.
  #5  
Old March 4th 16, 10:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Posts: 1,225
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-8, Robert M wrote:

...if you are not flying absolutely in trim they will shed a vortex...


Robert raises some good points. The one thing that I'd add is that fences will probably shed a vortex even if you _are_ absolutely in trim. At issue is that airflow on the bottom surface will tend to have a slight outboard component, and that on the top a slight inboard component. These spanwise components will tend to be stronger nearer the tip.

Thanks, Bob K.
  #6  
Old March 4th 16, 11:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,034
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 4:56:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-8, Robert M wrote:

...if you are not flying absolutely in trim they will shed a vortex...


Robert raises some good points. The one thing that I'd add is that fences will probably shed a vortex even if you _are_ absolutely in trim. At issue is that airflow on the bottom surface will tend to have a slight outboard component, and that on the top a slight inboard component. These spanwise components will tend to be stronger nearer the tip.

Thanks, Bob K.


In engineering speak, "You fix one issue, you FUBAR another issue".
Question is, does the "fix" overwhelm the negative issue?

I can't/won't say, a lot depends on the speed ranges you run it as well as how coordinated you are (lots of side slip add's a lot of drag thus possibly negating any gains in the aileron sealing).....
  #7  
Old March 5th 16, 04:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 63
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

-The ASW-19 wing is very flexable; closing the gap fully or even almost fully will result in binding or even locked ailerons due to the flex of the wing.

- Never seen Asw-19 with a plate sealing inboard edge in any of the US based Asw-19s; had mine in red, numerous times, with substantial wings flexing....and never felt there is ANY need for any modifications to controls. Its a glider with standard certificate, so Schleicher most likely knows better what is needed or isn't.
GK
  #8  
Old March 5th 16, 04:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 63
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 1:14:43 PM UTC-8, Robert M wrote:
If you do a lot of thermaling they likely will show some benefit in a slightly faster roll rate. However in cruise if you are not flying absolutely in trim they will shed a vortex that just creates drag. It may be better to make the gap as small as practical and have the two sides of the gap smooth and parallel. The ASW-19 wing is very flexable; closing the gap fully or even almost fully will result in binding or even locked ailerons due to the flex of the wing.

Robert Mudd
Composite Aircraft Repair
Moriarty, New Mexico USA.


- Never seen Asw-19 with a plate sealing inboard edge in any of the US based Asw-19s; had mine in red, numerous times, with substantial wings flexing....and never felt there is ANY need for any modifications to controls. Its a glider with a standard type certificate, so Schleicher most likely knows better what is required or isn't... What I had also seen is numerous factory "unapproved" modifications to Asw 19, mostly in Europe, and this plate falls in this category.
GK
  #10  
Old March 10th 16, 01:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 442
Default Aileron inboard edge sealing

There's an interesting paper on aileroin fences (etc.):

https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden.../140303_TS.pdf

Bottom line, pair of fences cost 0,25 points L/D.
 




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