AIRNAV not publishing fuel prices...

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS NOT HAPENING FOR NEW FBOs THAT DIDN'T HAVE
A LISTING BEFORE THE NEW POLICY. I KNOW AT LEAST TWO AIRPORTS WITH
FUEL THAT ARE NOT LISTED IN AIRNAV.

wrote in message ...
On 30-Jan-2004, (Paulo Santos) wrote:

So what are we doing to the businesses that don't pay? We typically
take out all their information, except their name, phone number, fuel
prices, and user comments.


Paulo,

First of all, I want to thank you for providing such a useful service to the
GA community. I've used it frequently with good results.

I believe that your fee structure, as you describe it, is very fair and
reasonable. But for users, I fail to see what the big deal is. If you
continue to list non-paying FBOs, along with their telephone numbers, fuel
prices, and user comments, you are still providing the majority of what
users want to see. The rest -- advertising and/or links to websites -- are
really more to the benefit of the business involved.

Keep up the good work!

Doug wrote:

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring in
any business. Buddy of mine owns a self serve 12,000 gallon tank at an
airport near here. He sell 100LL for $2.19 a gallon. The guy across
the ramp, who a lot of people don't like, is the FBO and has long sold
fuel. He is on very shaky financial ground and is now forced to sell
fuel at the same price. Problem is he only buys 1000 gallons at a time
and can't get as good a price from the dealer. Here at the main airport
in Billings 100LL goes for about $2.90. Most traffic will stop here at
the main airport, even though 11 miles away you can save 70 cents a gallon.

Paulo Santos wrote:

I normally don't follow Usene. It is fun, but I just don't have the
time. So pardon my late entry into this thread. [Thanks, Victor, for
telling me about the thread.]

Well, that post pretty much takes care of all the objections I've seen in this
thread so far.

Thanks, Paulo.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

Newps wrote in
news:4APSb.191598$I06.2115961@attbi_s01:

Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring
in any business.

I think there are more reasons. [And unfortunately, I don't know a good
solution to the problem.] I frequently find myself at a lot of small
rural airports around the southwest. Most of these are unattended. A
lot that *claim* to be attended simply have a guy who lives in a trailer
somewhere on the property and mows the grass and keeps the barb wire
fences mended in return for a sub-standard place to live.

Fuel is from a self-serve pump, billed as the owning cities utility
district. There is usually a pay phone and a public toilet/building (or
at least a designated tree).

The problem here is NOT the price of an Airnav listing, but rather that
the airport is not run as a profit center. Just who is going to agree
to run the listing? The guy mowing the field? He doesn't have the
authority to spend the $10 per year, nor does he care. He gets nothing
from the fuel flow. The city utility district? They just handle the
billing - it's a data processing center. You could spend $50 in long
distance calls (not to mention your time) just trying to find anyone to
give you a definitive yes or no about subscribing to Airnav for $10 per
year.

[And yes, this situation has other fallout - no one promotes aviation,
no one promotes the airport or flying, and the airport is always viewed
as (and is) a drain on the public coffers.]

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

James M. Knox wrote:

Newps wrote in
news:4APSb.191598$I06.2115961@attbi_s01:


Those with high prices will not want their prices to be listed. Those
with low prices are too cheap (poor) to pay to list their prices.

Not always too cheap. They just don't care because it doesn't bring
in any business.


I think there are more reasons. [And unfortunately, I don't know a good
solution to the problem.] I frequently find myself at a lot of small
rural airports around the southwest. Most of these are unattended. A
lot that *claim* to be attended simply have a guy who lives in a trailer
somewhere on the property and mows the grass and keeps the barb wire
fences mended in return for a sub-standard place to live.

Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.

Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

(Paulo Santos) wrote in message . com...

So what are we doing to the businesses that don't pay? We typically
take out all their information, except their name, phone number, fuel
prices, and user comments.

OK Paulo,

I take back all my comments in this thread. The original post led
me to believe that non-paying FBOs were not being listed (fuel prices
or comments). If that is not the case, then I think you've struck an
excellent compromise. The FBOs that pay get improved exposure, and we
still get all of the available core information that we need.

I really hope that model works out for you. As I said in another
post, you've created one of the best aviation resources on the web and
you deserve to make something from it.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.


Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:34:19 GMT, Newps wrote:


The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

One of the things I use AIRNAV for is to find all airports along my
route of flight that have an ILS and 24 hour fuel availability. There
is no other site that I am aware of that will give me that information
with a single request.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:L3WSb.154496$nt4.711997@attbi_s51...


Tom Sixkiller wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
news:BlTSb.148233$Rc4.1190979@attbi_s54...


Paulo mentioned he was shocked that a guy driving a Baron wouldn't cough
up a nominal amount each month for the service. The fact is we all
cough up a lot of nominal amounts each month for various services, all
an unbelievably good value. Pretty soon it ain't nominal anymore.


Umm...yes...so what's the punch line?

What price good information?

The information he provides is available elsewhere, for example AOPA.
So if you are a member of AOPA there's no reason to pay for the same
information twice.

So go with AOPA. I'll stick with AirNav since I find AOPA to be to pilots
what AARP is to geezers. :~)