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LX Era 80 vs S80/S100



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 4th 19, 02:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Turkey Vulture
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Posts: 4
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end
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  #12  
Old October 4th 19, 03:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Senna Van den Bosch
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Posts: 93
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end


Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)
  #13  
Old October 4th 19, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Senna Van den Bosch
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Posts: 93
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end


Also, would you say the LX stick is worth it? My DG instrument panel is quite far, I've only used the LX stick for an LX 9070 in an Arcus, and that was quite pleasant.
  #14  
Old October 4th 19, 06:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 290
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 07:25:25 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and
switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main
reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those
multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)

How are you controlling mode switch?

I have a C4 in my Libelle. I like the C4 a lot and find it very easy to
read and to interpret its sounds.

I use airspeed for mode switch and spent some time tuning that to suit me
and the glider. I've ended up with Thermal-Cruise set at 60kts and
Cruise-Thermal at 55 kts. At these switch points its almost always in
the appropriate mode without me having to do anything. If I need to force
a switch, then a small pull or push on the stick does it.

I never seriously considered using manual switching as just something
more to fiddle with. I tried switching on circling, but didn't like that
at all.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #15  
Old October 4th 19, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 75
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

It sounds like either your C4 is not configured properly, or there is a leak somewhere in your TE system or you use a TE probe that does not work properly. A new vario won't fix this, but will probably make things even worse. Recent varios are more sensitive to any issues with pressure sensing and plumbing than older units were.

Electronic compensation with these new devices requires a multi-probe with static and total pressure being picked up at the same location. But this is something all current varios have in common.

The new LX varios are better than the older ones (LX7007) and finally reached a quality comparable to 15 year old 302 or Zander ZS1.
  #16  
Old October 5th 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 144
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100


Also, would you say the LX stick is worth it? My DG instrument panel is quite far, I've only used the LX stick for an LX 9070 in an Arcus, and that was quite pleasant.



I love the LX grip and installed in my my DG400 with the S100. I go the one that has the toggle switch which I worked to raise and lower the engine. Push forward to extend, and pull back to stow engine. Much more intuitive that the side toggle.

But the overall function of the stick controller is great and I can toggle form flarm, waypoint, task, pages very simply with my thumb. Also macredy, ballast, bugs, and volume very easily. I Love the stick controller.

Kevin Anderson
92
  #17  
Old October 5th 19, 02:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 520
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

On Friday, 4 October 2019 17:25:28 UTC+3, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end


Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)


This does not sound like variometer hardware issue or C4 feature. My guess is either pitot-static problem or configuration problem. You will probably have some problems with every new vario (except GlideS that can be configured to ignore pitot-static data for inertial vario). I would start with leak test, plumbing, new probe etc.
  #18  
Old October 5th 19, 03:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 290
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 06:31:17 -0700, krasw wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 17:25:28 UTC+3, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for
the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I
preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly
less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles
and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and
it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting
internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would
use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe
to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I
find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before
turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to
identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you
exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it
for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I
think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful
on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you
won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can
adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you
should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my
mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in
reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of
the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had
some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as
we all have to listen to it for hours on end


Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal
in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a
thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing
towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have
a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to
see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and
switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main
reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those
multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it
can?)


This does not sound like variometer hardware issue or C4 feature. My
guess is either pitot-static problem or configuration problem. You will
probably have some problems with every new vario (except GlideS that can
be configured to ignore pitot-static data for inertial vario). I would
start with leak test, plumbing, new probe etc.


I think his C4 is configured to use either manual switching or GPS-
detected circling switching. IIRC the manual says it switches after 1/4
turn, which has the disadvantage that if you fly straight through lift
the C4 will remain in cruise mode: you have to feel the lift and turn 90
degrees turn before the C4 will switch from netto to TE mode.

I tried using GPS-based circling-detection switching on my C4 and hated
it. I never considered using manual switching because, unlike the C3,
manual switching is just a third switching mode and can't be used to
override the other modes. At least thats what I understand the manual to
say.

The C3 could be configured to automatically switch between TE and netto
mode using GPS (circling detection) or airspeed and, in addition had a 3-
position switch on its face: the positions we

UP: thermal mode (TE vario)
CENT automatic switch using the configured method
DOWN: cruise mode (netto)

IOW the switch was really an override for the configured automatic
switching method.

The C4 lacks this switch, but does allow an external switch to be
connected with the expectation that it would be on the flap lever or the
top of the stick. However, it can only be configured to use one of the
three switching options:

automatic switch between TE and netto mode on airspeed
automatic switch between TE and netto mode on GPS-detected circling
manual switch between TE and netto mode

My C4, installed in a 201 Libelle, switches mode on airspeed:
netto to TE as the airspeed drops through 55 kts
TE to netto as the airspeed increases past 60kts

This leaves the C4 in the appropriate mode better than 95% of the time.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #19  
Old October 6th 19, 01:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick Kennedy[_3_]
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Posts: 124
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

Senna
I think you should fix what you have first before spending any money.
What Christop and Krasw said is correct and I agree.
It sounds like you have a incorrect polar installed in your computor or a pneumatic tubing leak.
Your Netto function should work much better than you describe.
Double and triple check you have the correct polar data entered.
Mike Borgelt on his website has a tubing leak repair and test guide.
Lee Kuhlke also wrote a excellent article on testing in Soaring a few years back.
You only need a few dollars in tools and an less than an hour to do this.
You can't just look at the tubing; you Have to check it for leaks with a gauge, likely your airspeed indicator. This plumbing leak test is easy to do, finding and fixing the leak, if you have one, could take more time, but you have to have a leak free system before anything is going to work well.
These gliding computers function off of very low pressure's and suction.
Ask someone who knows if your TE probe is adequate.
Fix what you got and save that money for tows, or chocolates for your girlfriend the next time you leave her for a soaring trip!


  #20  
Old October 6th 19, 12:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 520
Default LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

perjantai 4. lokakuuta 2019 17.25.28 UTC+3 Senna Van den Bosch kirjoitti:
Op vrijdag 4 oktober 2019 15:17:12 UTC+2 schreef Turkey Vultu
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

I ordered the lx navigation Eros first and then returned it. I preferred the simplicity of the S100. I found the era to be slightly less user friendly but it’s basically the same unit.

You will be happy with the S100. It has all the bells and whistles and is easy to use. I have it on electronic compensation though and it creates an overly sensitive and optimistic vario. Adjusting internal settings has minimal effect on this. On the DG 100 I would use the traditional TE compensation. I think you need the combo probe to get good performance with electronic compensation on the S100. I find myself waiting on the winter to confirm a thermal before turning. The S100 is usually right about the thermal and quick to identify it, but screams like it’s going to be a 5 kt climb until you exuberantly turn and find it to only be 1.5 kts. Yes, I have tuned it for stick thermals Properly. The winter stays honest throughout. I think this is due to the location of the static holes...

The $800 AHRS option sure is cool eye candy and could come in useful on that wave day where it closes in below you but Otherwise, you won’t use it.

My last comment is that you have one option for tone. Yea you can adjust it slightly but it’s doesn’t change much. For $2,000 you should have 10 options for types of sounds for the vario. It blows my mind that nobody seems to care and it’s not even discussed in reviews. The tone should be highly adjustable just like the face of the vario. Instead you get a standard beep. Cambridge and Tasman had some nice option. The industry needs to pamper attention to this as we all have to listen to it for hours on end


Right now I find myself in the following situation before EVERY thermal in the C4:
Speed to fly mode is active, try to keep it at 0. When flying through a thermal before turning, it shows me I have to slow down a lot, pointing towards the +3-4 m/s (while going straight), turning in thinking I have a great thermal, followed by switching mode to thermal mode, only to see I net +1 or +2 m/s.

In the C4, I have absolutely no way of telling before turning in and switching the mode, how strong it will be. That is one of the main reasons to switch to a new vario, as it is possible to show those multiple needles and digits, even in speed to fly mode (I think it can?)


Reading this trough again I think this happens:

When you fly trough thermal your indicator is configured as speed commander, commanding to pull up, which is correct (in a sense that every single flight computer/variometer wants you to pull straight into deep stall in thermal, like this is what people normally do).

What you want is relative netto indicator. This tells you the strength of the thermal if you would circle in it at optimum climbing speed, no matter what your current speed is. Seems like C4 needle cannot be configured to show relative netto.
 




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