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resign commission for warrant officer questions



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 19th 04, 03:59 PM
Ron
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s Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks


I am pretty sure he is still alive.

Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one
rescueing the dad.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

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  #22  
Old June 19th 04, 05:31 PM
Ragnar
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"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".


I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things,

but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in

nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as

Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission,

so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least

WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second

ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as

to
what time period we're comparing here?

\
My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a
wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole
time. The ops grp/cc was the same. All of the senior staff had an IP (or
equivalent) ride with them. They simply weren't qualified to fly the jet
unassisted.


  #23  
Old June 19th 04, 06:12 PM
Ed Rasimus
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On 19 Jun 2004 03:39:49 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".


I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission, so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as to
what time period we're comparing here?

BUFDRVR


I've seen it work both ways. Most assuredly there was a lot of
leadership by commanders during Rolling Thunder--guys like Robin Olds,
Bob Scott, Jack Broughton, Robbie Risner, etc, led strike packages.
But, there also were instances of wing CC's, DO's, etc, that
recognized that they lacked the skills or the time to properly prepare
a mission, so they flew wing. I never disparaged a commander with
that judgement.

Squadron CC's absolutely must fly in a leadership role, but sadly they
often don't. We've probably both seen good ones and bad ones.

The modern force increasingly seems to have a mix of careerists and
warriors. The careerists know the ins and outs of political maneuver
to eventually rise to the highest ranks. The warriors have other
priorities and different ethical standards. At some point you make
your choice of which path to follow.

A few, unfortunately too few, can be both--politically astute and
combat effective. Guys like Joe Ralston, Jack Chain, Chuck Horner,
Chuck Gabriel, etc.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #24  
Old June 19th 04, 06:16 PM
Ed Rasimus
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:31:38 +0900, "Ragnar"
wrote:

My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a
wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole
time. The ops grp/cc was the same. All of the senior staff had an IP (or
equivalent) ride with them. They simply weren't qualified to fly the jet
unassisted.


Used to be an AF reg that a general officer had to fly with an IP. The
trend for Wing CC's to be B/G would make what you encountered logical.

I recall, however, when I had a Wing CC at a pilot training base make
B/G, that he continued to fly with students, because he himself was
"an IP aboard". Also, as recounted in Tom Clancy's book "Every Man a
Tiger", Chuck Horner was flying F-16 missions single-seat during DS.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #25  
Old June 19th 04, 06:27 PM
BUFDRVR
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Ron wrote;

Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one
rescueing the dad.


I heard this story told, in person, when Novosel came to speak to my SOS class.
According to Novosel, he put his helo down immediately beside his son's downed
bird, but was forced to run over 100 yards through mud and swamp just a few
days later when his son picked him up. He said he reminds his son of that fact
to this day.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
  #26  
Old June 19th 04, 06:32 PM
BUFDRVR
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Ed Rasimus wrote:

Used to be an AF reg that a general officer had to fly with an IP.


Still is....I think.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
  #27  
Old June 19th 04, 06:39 PM
BUFDRVR
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Ragnar wrote:

My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a
wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole
time.


I guess the situation depends on your MWS. In the BUFF world, the only senior
leaders requiring an IP on every sortie were our B/G Wing Commanders. Our O-6
Wing/CCs and below all were fully qualified instructors. Now, granted,
depending on what was going on some of these guys "dropped dead" on currencies
now and again and were required to get re-current with an instructor on board,
but they all flew the minimum RAP sorties every month (usually) and in reality
and on paper were FMC instructors. In fact, best A/R instruction I ever
received as a young co-pilot was from our Wing/CV.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
  #28  
Old June 19th 04, 09:05 PM
Kevin Brooks
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"Ron" wrote in message
...
s Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks


I am pretty sure he is still alive.


It appears you are right, from what I have since found on the web. At least
he was alive last year when he testified before congress regarding the award
criteria for the combat medic badge! My mistake...

Brooks


Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying

the
UH-1, the father rescued them.
Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the

one
rescueing the dad.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India



  #30  
Old June 22nd 04, 05:46 AM
1LT 15B in AH-64D
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Tank Fixer wrote in message k.net...
In article ,
on 18 Jun 2004 04:11:27 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From:
(1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.




My deal is that I am in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency and I am
facing a board that is known for dropping you without a thought. It
is a spanish board and I have never spoken the language before the
academy, but I graduated so I am in better shape for this test than
the fellows that did not make it. I am just thinking about the future
permutations of my situation, including leaving this agency and going
into active duty. Warrants definitely fly the most, are the IPs
usually, the SPs almost all the time (standardization pilots, the men
that decide how something will be done if there is any disagreement)
Maintenance test pilots, and PCs usually. I used to think that a
Warrant was not given the opportunity to lead as is the Real Life
Officer, RLO, but that was an immature thought. I understand now that
it is not the rank that does a leader make, but your personal gifts
and the example of leaders that taught you. A PC is the undisputed
responsible party for the safety and success of the crew. Warrants
take command all the time, so I don't need to be an O to take care of
soldiers and to help the Army.

I will hold on to my current position, because if I am released from
duty with my current employer, my guard unit still needs to send me to
a 6 month school to get qualified in the Longbow, and by that time if
I am reinstated the hiring freeze will be off of my agency after the
new fiscal year. Plus I love my civilian/federal job and want to
stick it our first.

Something else, Warrants are usually the SPs, IPs, IEs, MPs, DES
pilots, etc, technically expert pilots in other words, because they
don't have to fly a desk as often as the planners, the real life
officers.

I think I can sense a split in this thread, between USAF and USA. I
don't think that there are very many warrants in the USAF so it
doesn't make sensein their minds to go from a LT or CPT or even MAJ to
a WO1 or WO2. In the Army we have a lot of warrants, I mean ALOT and
they are very important for advising the RLOs and helping us make the
best decisions. The fact that our aviation units are based on
platoons would indicate why USAF personnel would seem out of touch
with this subject. Army aviation seems to work alot like a regular
army unit, we just get into trucks and tanks that have a vertical lift
component. Of course the fixed wing assets we do have are pretty much
all flown by warrants too. Anyhoo, if I can pass this spanish board,
and another one 3 months down the road, then it is two more years and
I will be able to fly for this agency I am in now, and that is the
current plan.
 




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