Libelle 201 query

Frank, to get the excitement up have a look at these H201 Libelle flights by my friend Bob Dircks at Lake Keepit. One was just shy of 1000 points on OLC.
In 2013 when I finally completed a declared 1000k, my second favourite flight of the year was a 500k triangle in the 201B.
Jim

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0...t=olc&pi=47926

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 5:43:05 PM UTC-8, Ommadawn wrote:

I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.

Ommadawn

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:26:44 +0000, Ommadawn wrote:

I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.

How will you be launching your Libelle?

I ask because its *essential* that you get properly briefed by a current
Libelle pilot before you winch it. You may also find these notes useful:

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/libelle/h201_notes.html


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Originally Posted by Martin Gregorie[_5_]

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:26:44 +0000, Ommadawn wrote:

I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.

How will you be launching your Libelle?

I ask because its *essential* that you get properly briefed by a current
Libelle pilot before you winch it. You may also find these notes useful:

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/libelle/h201_notes.html


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I'm partway through my XC road trip epic to see this bird. Just covered 1000km today, and same again tomorrow, then another 250 odd km next day. Alone in a country motel room...
I just hope it will be worth it.
Thanks for the links JS. I see the Libelle pops up in pics in the latest AG mag too.
My club uses winch launch. I had already discovered the Libelle notes, thanks for the pointer though Martin. I actually did my Silver C in a Club Libelle back in 1980. That had a parallelogram stick, and a tendency to pop the nose on launch. The winch launch procedure was to hold the stick full forward against the stop until she un-stuck, then gradually rotate.
I imagine the 201 may be similar, but without the brilliant TE airbrakes of the clubby. My club used to own a 201, way back in the day, but I never got into it. My brother in law ended up buying it from the club.
The one I am going to look at was built in 1973. When did they stop using balsa sandwich? Is there any simple way to see if this one is composed of balsa? Is there a complete list of serial numbers? I found one for the Cirrus, listing the reg history of every one built, or lost in accidents.
Cheers guys.
The epic continues. Watch this space...

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 5:43:03 AM UTC-8, Ommadawn wrote:
I guess what Im mostly concerned with is how big can a guy be and still
fit into the Libelle cockpit. Would 6'2" be too tall?




--
Ommadawn

Frank, Tom Gilbert would be a good source of information like the change from balsa. Was it with the "B" version?
Jim

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:15:02 +0000, Ommadawn wrote:

The winch launch procedure was to
hold the stick full forward against the stop until she un-stuck, then
gradually rotate.

Fairly close to what I do, then.

I imagine the 201 may be similar, but without the brilliant TE airbrakes
of the clubby. My club used to own a 201, way back in the day, but I
never got into it. My brother in law ended up buying it from the club.
The one I am going to look at was built in 1973. When did they stop
using balsa sandwich?

I don't know the date, but from memory that was about s/n 192 but may
have been spread over more gliders. The balsa replacement was quite
gradual over at least 10 gliders - something like wings first, then stab,
followed by fin and finally control surfaces. I think the transition was
completed with s/n 321. This is also the point when the H.201 officially
became an H.201B.

The old and new tailplanes differ in size (difficult to spot unless you
kave both the compare) and in LE radius. The old tailplane has a fairly
sharp LE - 10-12mm radius while the new B-series tailplane has quite a
blunt LE, which I'd guess is at least 12mm in radius.

Is there a complete list of serial numbers?

Not that I know.

Try Glasfaser, http://www.streifly.de/

They have owned the type certificates since Glasflugel folded, maintain
the TN/AD list and are generally helpful and friendly to deal with. Their
English is excellent too.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Hi Frank,

There are several Standard Libelles in South Australia, including a few at Gawler, and at least one at Stonefield. I'm sure the owners of these gliders would have been more than happy for you to have a sit in one to see how you fit. I am guessing you are likely at Balaklava.

For what it's worth, I'm 6 foot 3 & quite meaty, and I flew a Libelle for many years. If anything, the biggest issue was related to my feet rather than the size of the cockpit. Some people find them to be quite narrow across the shoulders as the cockpit walls taper inwards at the top, but deceptively long.

My Libelle was a combination of 2 - early production wings combined with late production fuselage. My wings were balsa core and had upper & lower surface brakes. I don't believe the switch to foam core was intended to modernise the glider, more to solve a material sourcing problem.

Jim, for what it's worth, mine was the first of 2 libelles that Bob Dircks owned, VH-GAK.

A 1973 build Libelle is likely to have foam core, the thicker & rounder tailplane, and top surface airbrakes only. Come to think of it, considering the fact that i'm an avid reader of gliding classified sites, and Libelles, I am fairly sure I know the one you are talking about. Considering it's serial number is in the late 450's I am certain it is as described above.

Cheers,

Nick Gilbert
Mosquito VH-GSG


On Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
Thanks for the comprehensive feedback chaps.
I cant actually try out the glider as it is 2300Km away.
I will be making an epic road trip to check her out.
I will fit, as I'm not really big, but my buddy was the one I was
concerned about. He is about 6"1 and 100Kg.
Sounds like it won't be an issue for him.
If she checks out ok I will be hauling her home.
I hope to become a regular contributor to this forum, even if its just
to ask dumb newbie type questions, as this will be my first private
sailplane.
I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.
I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.




--
Ommadawn

Originally Posted by Nick Gilbert

Hi Frank,

There are several Standard Libelles in South Australia, including a few at Gawler, and at least one at Stonefield. I'm sure the owners of these gliders would have been more than happy for you to have a sit in one to see how you fit. I am guessing you are likely at Balaklava.

For what it's worth, I'm 6 foot 3 & quite meaty, and I flew a Libelle for many years. If anything, the biggest issue was related to my feet rather than the size of the cockpit. Some people find them to be quite narrow across the shoulders as the cockpit walls taper inwards at the top, but deceptively long.

My Libelle was a combination of 2 - early production wings combined with late production fuselage. My wings were balsa core and had upper & lower surface brakes. I don't believe the switch to foam core was intended to modernise the glider, more to solve a material sourcing problem.

Jim, for what it's worth, mine was the first of 2 libelles that Bob Dircks owned, VH-GAK.

A 1973 build Libelle is likely to have foam core, the thicker & rounder tailplane, and top surface airbrakes only. Come to think of it, considering the fact that i'm an avid reader of gliding classified sites, and Libelles, I am fairly sure I know the one you are talking about. Considering it's serial number is in the late 450's I am certain it is as described above.

Cheers,

Nick Gilbert
Mosquito VH-GSG


On Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
Thanks for the comprehensive feedback chaps.
I cant actually try out the glider as it is 2300Km away.
I will be making an epic road trip to check her out.
I will fit, as I'm not really big, but my buddy was the one I was
concerned about. He is about 6"1 and 100Kg.
Sounds like it won't be an issue for him.
If she checks out ok I will be hauling her home.
I hope to become a regular contributor to this forum, even if its just
to ask dumb newbie type questions, as this will be my first private
sailplane.
I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.
I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.




--
Ommadawn

Its a B version, 1880 hours.
You guessed it, Nick. I'm with BGC in SA.
Any obvious things I should look for when inspecting a 43 YEAR OLD GLIDER!!!?

Originally Posted by Ommadawn

Its a B version, 1880 hours.
You guessed it, Nick. I'm with BGC in SA.
Any obvious things I should look for when inspecting a 43 YEAR OLD GLIDER!!!?

It's a good thing, the owner is as honest as the day is long. I will up there this Saturday if you need anything

Justin

Originally Posted by Skypilot

It's a good thing, the owner is as honest as the day is long. I will up there this Saturday if you need anything

Justin

I was hoping to hear something like that..
Thanks Justin. By Saturday I will be back in SA.

About the only thing of note would be AD compliance. There have been a couple of AD's requiring the purchase of parts from Streifeneder, but the 2 that spring to mind are old enough that they must have been completed (airbrake torque tube reinforcement & rudder yoke replacement). I recently bought a Glasflugel Mosquito from Western Australia and found that a 4-5 year old AD requiring the replacement of an elevator pushrod with a new part from Germany had not been completed.

What does it weigh? The paint looks original and with a no damage history it shouldn't have gained much. If it has been at an aerotow club the belly release may not be serviceable, although its not a big deal to make it so. Does it have ballast bags fitted? I note that no parachute or radio is specified in the ad, they may cost you a few thousand dollars if not included.

I don't think you can really go wrong at that price. As long as you fit in it.

Cheers,

Nick.


On Tuesday, 2 February 2016 00:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
Nick Gilbert;918501 Wrote:
Hi Frank,

There are several Standard Libelles in South Australia, including a few
at Gawler, and at least one at Stonefield. I'm sure the owners of these
gliders would have been more than happy for you to have a sit in one to
see how you fit. I am guessing you are likely at Balaklava.

For what it's worth, I'm 6 foot 3 & quite meaty, and I flew a Libelle
for many years. If anything, the biggest issue was related to my feet
rather than the size of the cockpit. Some people find them to be quite
narrow across the shoulders as the cockpit walls taper inwards at the
top, but deceptively long.

My Libelle was a combination of 2 - early production wings combined with
late production fuselage. My wings were balsa core and had upper & lower
surface brakes. I don't believe the switch to foam core was intended to
modernise the glider, more to solve a material sourcing problem.

Jim, for what it's worth, mine was the first of 2 libelles that Bob
Dircks owned, VH-GAK.

A 1973 build Libelle is likely to have foam core, the thicker & rounder
tailplane, and top surface airbrakes only. Come to think of it,
considering the fact that i'm an avid reader of gliding classified
sites, and Libelles, I am fairly sure I know the one you are talking
about. Considering it's serial number is in the late 450's I am certain
it is as described above.

Cheers,

Nick Gilbert
Mosquito VH-GSG


On Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:-
Thanks for the comprehensive feedback chaps.
I cant actually try out the glider as it is 2300Km away.
I will be making an epic road trip to check her out.
I will fit, as I'm not really big, but my buddy was the one I was
concerned about. He is about 6"1 and 100Kg.
Sounds like it won't be an issue for him.
If she checks out ok I will be hauling her home.
I hope to become a regular contributor to this forum, even if its just
to ask dumb newbie type questions, as this will be my first private
sailplane.
I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.
I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.




--
Ommadawn-
Its a B version, 1880 hours.
You guessed it, Nick. I'm with BGC in SA.
Any obvious things I should look for when inspecting a 43 YEAR OLD
GLIDER!!!?




--
Ommadawn