Werker SLA batteries? (... better than PowerSonic?)

I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.

Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?

The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found he

http://aviation.derosaweb.net/

This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.

I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.

When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.

Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first.

I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).

The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.

Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.

Hope some of that helped..

Rob S.
ASW-19b
ZAP

On Monday, April 29, 2013 6:10:04 PM UTC-7, 2NO wrote:
I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.



Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?



The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

Mmm the unbiased opinion of a sales droid....

My first thing to do with battery problems like this is to look at your charging setup/method. What exact model/capacity batteries, what exact chargers, batteries charged in parallel?, how long are the batteries left on charge? redundant electronic bits and pieces in the charger circuit, etc. charger settings (if any), ambient temps, etc. How deeply are the batteries typically discharged? How long are they left discharged? Have you taken them out of the glider, fully charged them (typically for a few days) on a known good SLA charger and then done a discharge test. Do that at each annual and track how the batteries age.

PowerSonic tend to be high quality, as do Panasonic, and other brand name batteries. But every manufacturer will have duds.

Darryl

On Monday, April 29, 2013 9:37:57 PM UTC-4, RAS56 wrote:
I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found he



http://aviation.derosaweb.net/



This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.



I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.



When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.



Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first.



I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).



The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.



Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.



Hope some of that helped..



Rob S.

ASW-19b

ZAP

I switched to Werker about 5 years back and had 2 (12v/12ah) that lasted several years. When they faded, I bought 2 more, and neither of them went the season. Bought 2 more, and they also crapped out quickly. Same charging gear. Carefully monitored. Careful discharge test.

I switched to the LIFEPo4 chemistry last year. So far, so good....

On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:44:05 PM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2013 9:37:57 PM UTC-4, RAS56 wrote:

I have been running my SLA batteries through John DeRosa's test "rig" found he







http://aviation.derosaweb.net/







This is the second year I've tested them, and the batteries have been in service since March 2011.







I have two 12v/7.5ah batteries I purchased from Academy Sporting Goods (chain store) here in Austin, Texas for ~$20 each. They are primarily sold for deer feeders, electric fences, etc. They are sold under the trade name "Wildgame Innovations" and are listed as Model #12vb.







When I ran Battery #1 through John's testing protocol, I got 5 hours 35 minutes till it dropped from full charge to 11.5v. It lasted another 1:37 till it dropped to 10v, at which time I terminated the test.







Battery #2 is currently on the test rig, and has just hit 11.5v at 5:30 into the test protocol. I expect it will last to 10v the same as the first..







I do have a Werker 12v/2.9ah backup battery...config on my glider is such that it's easier to mount 1 big battery/1 small one vs 2 big ones...so I use the main all day and the 2.9ah to go into a "limp home" status if I ever need it (haven't yet).







The Werker is right at 1 year old...and it appears to be fading fast. One would think it would have ~39% of the bigger battery's life (2.9/7.5) or something near 2 hours 10 minutes, but in my testing, it dropped to 11.5v in only 55 minutes.







Wish the sporting goods guys would stock the smaller batteries in something other than 6v sizes...but they don't.







Hope some of that helped..







Rob S.



ASW-19b



ZAP



I switched to Werker about 5 years back and had 2 (12v/12ah) that lasted several years. When they faded, I bought 2 more, and neither of them went the season. Bought 2 more, and they also crapped out quickly. Same charging gear. Carefully monitored. Careful discharge test.



I switched to the LIFEPo4 chemistry last year. So far, so good....

Werker are just a Batteries Plus house brand made by several different manufactures, it may well be pointless to discuss their generic quality or experience of one model vs. another that could be made at a different factory by a different company on different sides of the world.

Personally I would go with PowerSonic or Panasonic SLA batteries if using SLA. But I suspect more batteries are killed than just die. So its all about how they are used, stored and charged.

Darryl

On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:
I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.



Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?



The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.

On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:00:59 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:

I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.







Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?







The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...



Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.

I am pretty sure that Werker are relabeled Exide and others vendors, I'm not sure if that includes PowerSonic, it may. But they definitively relabel batteries from multiple vendors, for what that's worth, and it may not be much. If they have good warranties that's a great point to catch the unavoidable failures that every vendor will have.

My reaction however to "my brand name battery is not reliable or repeatedly dies early" should I switch to Werker, is no--the brand of the battery is probalby not the issue.

Darryl

To add to Darryl's comments:
SLA batteries are pretty basic in construction.
Not many differentiating factors in the production process of different manufacturers.
Most SLA batteries do not "crap out".
They are destroyed.
Particularly by the glider use case.
There are 3 factors by which you accelerate the rate of destruction of a SLA battery:
- Deep discharge.
- Over charge.
- Store in discharged condition.

Deep Discharge:
If you have multiple batteries on board and you belong to the subscribers of the "spare battery" concept, ie. deep discharge one battery to spare the other battery, you are destroying your battery faster.
If you have 2 batteries on board, it is best to discharge both simultaneously and not go below 50% discharge.
If you have 3 batteries on board, it is best to discharge all 3 simultaneously and not go below 66% of capacity.

Over charge:
If you use a bad charger, you accelerate the destruction of your SLA battery.
Most damaging is the charging beyond full.
If you want to leave your batteries connected to your charger, you need a charger that properly detects the full stage and terminates the charging process.
Even poorly implemented "trickle" charge is highly damaging to the battery.
Charge every battery on a separate charger.
Don't fast charge your batteries. A Battery Tender Jr. with 0.7A charge current for a 7Ah battery (0.1C) works fine.

Storing discharged batteries:
Charge your batteries immediately after use.
If you leave them discharged and only charge them the evening before your next flight, you accelerate the destruction of your SLA battery.


The effects of quality differences between different brands are smaller than the effects of above mentioned abuses.

If you are using "High Capacity" batteries, e.g. the 9Ah types in a 7Ah footprint, keep in mind that these high capacity batteries are even more susceptible to the above abuses, as they have a more delicate internal structure to cram in the additional capacity.

If you treat your batteries well, even mid-grade batteries should last for many seasons.
My PowerSonics are going into the 6th season with about 75% capacity left.

Final comment about fluctuations in capacity/quality:
I measure battery capacities of our club batteries. I found PowerSonic 9Ah batteries with 115% of rated capacity after 1 season of use and 60% of rated capacity after 1 season of use.
I attributed the 40% loss of capacity in 1 season to a poor charger.

On Monday, April 29, 2013 11:13:52 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:00:59 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:

On Monday, April 29, 2013 7:10:04 PM UTC-6, 2NO wrote:



I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.















Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?















The salesman at Batteries Plus who said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...







Batteries Plus labels Werker Batteries, and have claimed that Werker batteries are made in same factory as Power Sonic, putting them on equal footing. I doubt that there is much of a quality control problem from one brand to the other. On my third year with one Werker battery and on the second with the other. Had one with problems just after one year, but BP honored the warranty anyway. They seem ok to me.



I am pretty sure that Werker are relabeled Exide and others vendors, I'm not sure if that includes PowerSonic, it may. But they definitively relabel batteries from multiple vendors, for what that's worth, and it may not be much. If they have good warranties that's a great point to catch the unavoidable failures that every vendor will have.



My reaction however to "my brand name battery is not reliable or repeatedly dies early" should I switch to Werker, is no--the brand of the battery is probalby not the issue.



Darryl

Well said Darryl. I was in the battery testing industry for several years during my career and I agree 100% with everything you just said about batteries.

-Jim

On Apr 29, 7:10*pm, 2NO wrote:
I'm growing weary of my PowerSonic (PoS) batteries crapping out a few minutes after their 1 year warranty expries.

Are Werker batteries any better? ... or are they essentially the same?

The salesman at Batteries Plus said they pretty much stopped selling PS because they were having quality issues ...

I had Werker batteries from Plus in my DG 400 which needs 4 6v
batteries. I never had any issues. They lasted about 4 years. I
replaced them with 4 more Werkers. They seemed fine after a few years
then sold the glider. Got Werkers is the new glider.