Tow Tracker

Sorry. While the OP gave a lower limit of no pen and paper, the upper limit of no FLARM was not mentioned.
I'd still use dedicated equipment even if disinterested in the five-lettered thingy. Using personal smart phones seems flawed. For example make sure other networks are not going to grab the wing runner's phone when the towplane is out of range. The significant other of the wing runner bringing lunch, or the wing runner's own logger being turned on could be that network.
Jim

Somehow the name of the pilot flying the glider has to be included so he/she can be charged. How do you do that ?
Dan
On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 9:57:57 PM UTC-5, Giaco wrote:
I have started tinkering around with the idea of developing a Tow-tracking for clubs to use that would not interfere with operations yet still be able to provide an upgrade to having a dedicated logger try and confirm release altitudes.

My current thought is to have a cell phone app that talks to bluetooth sensors mounted in the towplanes. The Wing runner/logger would enter in the pilot/glider info, then transmit the data to the tow. The towplane unit would take that log file and record the tow height (assuming max altitude) and save it to the file, which would then be transmitted back to the logger when the tow lands, and the next pilot log is entered. The logger should be able to upload all the files at the end of the day, with accurate tow heights without asking the tow pilots to record it.

Thoughts? Potential Problems? Interested in helping? The objective of this would that it would be a free app for the community at large with the hardware designs published as well.

I understand there will be the standard cry of "we have always used a pen and paper and it worked just fine," but that isn't the intent of the question being posed..

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 8:39:59 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Somehow the name of the pilot flying the glider has to be included so he/she can be charged. How do you do that ?
Dan

Dan,
That is one of my biggest drivers for not using FLARM. The way i envision the process...

1) Rope Runner uses dedicated "club" cell phone and app to enter in pilot info, glider info, and selects which towplane is coming (if more than one).

2) When the tow comes within bluetooth range, the phone makes the connection to the tow tracker, and the pilots transmits either the data or a unique id for that flight to the tow.

3) The towplane launches, with either an onboard GPS or simple barograph and records the flight. On landing, the device calculates the maximum altitude (or tow time as some clubs use) and assigns that value in a packet with the rest of the flight data.

4) When the towplane comes back into range and the rope runner re-connects, the completed log is downloaded to the handheld device and the next partial log is sent to the tow.

Thus both the device memory and handheld (cellphone) should both have records of the flights, but the app should be able to upload via .csv or other formats quickly at the end of the day (or real time if you really want). I suppose it could be a laptop or any other sort of device that acts as the master/server.

It is quickly becoming apparent that the logging responsibility varies greatly among different clubs!

Just because you *can* do something doesn't necessarily mean that you
*should*.

Despite the no pen and paper thing, during my last 6 years of towing
(I'm retired now), it was a simple matter of picking up the clipboard
and recording the name of the pilot and number of the glider and then
recording the release altitude. I don't know of anyone not being billed
in all that time. There's no need for take off and landing times of the
tug.

On 3/7/2016 1:07 PM, JS wrote:
Sorry. While the OP gave a lower limit of no pen and paper, the upper limit of no FLARM was not mentioned.
I'd still use dedicated equipment even if disinterested in the five-lettered thingy. Using personal smart phones seems flawed. For example make sure other networks are not going to grab the wing runner's phone when the towplane is out of range. The significant other of the wing runner bringing lunch, or the wing runner's own logger being turned on could be that network.
Jim

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 05:08:50 UTC+2, Dan Marotta wrote:
There's no need for take off and landing times of the tug.

Unless you're at a club which charges aerotow fees based on the time the tug is airborne.

Well I didn't mention it, but I also logged tach time.

On 3/7/2016 10:13 PM, Surge wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 05:08:50 UTC+2, Dan Marotta wrote:
There's no need for take off and landing times of the tug.
Unless you're at a club which charges aerotow fees based on the time the tug is airborne.

--
Dan, 5J

In our club (and probably all other clubs)there is a dedicated time keeper that uses a program on a tablet to record pilot name and all other information.
With your idea this function can be eliminated. makes sense to me !
When can we see the app working ??
Dan

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 10:08:13 PM UTC-5, Giaco wrote:
On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 8:39:59 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Somehow the name of the pilot flying the glider has to be included so he/she can be charged. How do you do that ?
Dan

Dan,
That is one of my biggest drivers for not using FLARM. The way i envision the process...

1) Rope Runner uses dedicated "club" cell phone and app to enter in pilot info, glider info, and selects which towplane is coming (if more than one)..

2) When the tow comes within bluetooth range, the phone makes the connection to the tow tracker, and the pilots transmits either the data or a unique id for that flight to the tow.

3) The towplane launches, with either an onboard GPS or simple barograph and records the flight. On landing, the device calculates the maximum altitude (or tow time as some clubs use) and assigns that value in a packet with the rest of the flight data.

4) When the towplane comes back into range and the rope runner re-connects, the completed log is downloaded to the handheld device and the next partial log is sent to the tow.

Thus both the device memory and handheld (cellphone) should both have records of the flights, but the app should be able to upload via .csv or other formats quickly at the end of the day (or real time if you really want). I suppose it could be a laptop or any other sort of device that acts as the master/server.

It is quickly becoming apparent that the logging responsibility varies greatly among different clubs!

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 11:13:11 PM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 05:08:50 UTC+2, Dan Marotta wrote:
There's no need for take off and landing times of the tug.

Unless you're at a club which charges aerotow fees based on the time the tug is airborne.

I'm not sure I fully understand the logic in charging by time instead of altitude - unless your glider pilots are in the habit of hanging on to a tow? Seems to put the glider pilot at the mercy of the weather and tow pilot skill...

Our club charges by altitude, and solve the problem of bookkeeping by making the glider pilot himself responsible for filling in his release altitude. If he forgets, a standard 3000' fee is charged - usually a pretty good deterrent! We do have to log pilot and times, and are looking for a more high-tech solution than clipboard and pencil - but I'm not holding my breath ;^)

Kirk
66

Another flaw with charging by time is those towpilots that want to "build time" or take longer to get back after the glider gets off, or keep on climbing even after the glider released, etc. No system will be perfect.

At my club, glider pilot fills out a ticket. Has his name, address (for billing), date, glider type, speed, and planned release altitude. Towpilot is handed the ticket, puts his initial on it, tow number for the day, and starting tach time. If the glider pilot gets off early, he still gets to pay to his desired height, unless the towpilot changes the ticket. If he gets off late, and the towpilot does not change the ticket, he got some free altitude. And we bill in 1000 foot increments.

Yes, we still use hand signals for take up slack and go. We have far more non-towpilots than we have towpilots, so to try and have all contribute equally to running the club, we have more people scheduled on line duty than we have scheduled towpilots each day. So, we have someone on ground ops at the front and back of the tow rope. We think our system works pretty good. Although, I did just have a day's worth of tickets from November show up with the ones from our last day of flying in February...

Steve Leonard
Kansas Soaring Association

Surely if you charge by altitude (or rather- height) the lighter gliders
will be
subsidising the heavier, probably 2 seat gliders? You may wish to do that.
But
time seems fairer to me.

I believe the UK generally does Height, while France in my experience does

Hobbs time.

At 18:21 08 March 2016, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 11:13:11 PM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 05:08:50 UTC+2, Dan Marotta wrote:
There's no need for take off and landing times of the tug.
=20
Unless you're at a club which charges aerotow fees based on the time
the
=
tug is airborne.

I'm not sure I fully understand the logic in charging by time instead of
al=
titude - unless your glider pilots are in the habit of hanging on to a
tow?=
Seems to put the glider pilot at the mercy of the weather and tow pilot
sk=
ill...

Our club charges by altitude, and solve the problem of bookkeeping by
makin=
g the glider pilot himself responsible for filling in his release
altitude.=
If he forgets, a standard 3000' fee is charged - usually a pretty good
de=
terrent! We do have to log pilot and times, and are looking for a more
high=
-tech solution than clipboard and pencil - but I'm not holding my breath
;=
^)

Kirk
66