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Metric Instruments



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 24th 05, 04:48 PM
Roy Bourgeois
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Default Metric Instruments

This may be a silly question - but are all metric altimeters
configured with 'Zero at 6 O'clock' as I saw in France?
I did not have trouble converting to meters/kilometers
but I did have trouble quickly reading the altimeter
with the zero at the bottom of the instrument face
(especially on the little 57mm instruments). Just
curious.

Roy




  #3  
Old August 24th 05, 05:58 PM
Stig Oye
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No. I believe that it is an old German standard, but if you buy
PZL instruments you can specify it to either top or bottom.

http://www.pzl.com.pl/en/produkty/os...e/pw-12-a.html

BTW, these instruments are very high quality but somewhat heavy.
Highly recommended.

Regards Stig Oye

In article , Roy Bourgeois says:

This may be a silly question - but are all metric altimeters
configured with 'Zero at 6 O'clock' as I saw in France?
I did not have trouble converting to meters/kilometers
but I did have trouble quickly reading the altimeter
with the zero at the bottom of the instrument face
(especially on the little 57mm instruments). Just
curious.

Roy




  #4  
Old August 24th 05, 06:25 PM
Bill Daniels
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Default

Does it strike some of the digerati here that expensive mechanical
altimeters with easily mis-read clock-like hands locked into either the
metric or US measurement systems are archaic?

GPS provides highly accurate, although not ATC compliant, altitude. Various
vendors provide electronic pressure altimeters with digital displays that
can be switched between meters and feet with the push of a button. Digital
pressure altitude sensors drive the "glass cockpits" of new GA aircraft.

I seems to me that clock-like altimeters designed 70 years ago and
maintained by watchmakers must be nearing their well-deserved retirement.

Bill Daniels


"Bert Willing" wrote in
message ...
Yes, they are.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Roy Bourgeois" a écrit dans le message

de
news: ...
This may be a silly question - but are all metric altimeters
configured with 'Zero at 6 O'clock' as I saw in France?
I did not have trouble converting to meters/kilometers
but I did have trouble quickly reading the altimeter
with the zero at the bottom of the instrument face
(especially on the little 57mm instruments). Just
curious.

Roy







  #5  
Old August 24th 05, 07:07 PM
Stefan
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Default

Bill Daniels wrote:

Does it strike some of the digerati here that expensive mechanical
altimeters with easily mis-read clock-like hands locked into either the
metric or US measurement systems are archaic?


No, it doesn't. Most probably because the are not archaic, but still
much superior to digital displays, ergonomic wise. Besides, I really
appreciated their purely mechanic design when my battery died in flight.

Stefan
  #6  
Old August 24th 05, 08:47 PM
Malcolm Austin
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Default

I believe there was some research some years ago, on a similar vein.

The fact seemed to be we "read" clocks almost without thinking. Just the
position of the hands "tells us" what the time is (think of 15 mins to 3
o'clock)

Maybe the altimeter view works the same, which would also make it more
difficult
to adjust to, when it isn't mounted to fit our usual expectations.

(also makes me question the way electrical switches are down for off and up
for
on, in opposition to domestic reality, then we go to hand throttle's!)

Malcolm...


"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...
Does it strike some of the digerati here that expensive mechanical
altimeters with easily mis-read clock-like hands locked into either the
metric or US measurement systems are archaic?

GPS provides highly accurate, although not ATC compliant, altitude.
Various
vendors provide electronic pressure altimeters with digital displays that
can be switched between meters and feet with the push of a button.
Digital
pressure altitude sensors drive the "glass cockpits" of new GA aircraft.

I seems to me that clock-like altimeters designed 70 years ago and
maintained by watchmakers must be nearing their well-deserved retirement.

Bill Daniels


"Bert Willing" wrote in
message ...
Yes, they are.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Roy Bourgeois" a écrit dans le message

de
news: ...
This may be a silly question - but are all metric altimeters
configured with 'Zero at 6 O'clock' as I saw in France?
I did not have trouble converting to meters/kilometers
but I did have trouble quickly reading the altimeter
with the zero at the bottom of the instrument face
(especially on the little 57mm instruments). Just
curious.

Roy









  #7  
Old August 24th 05, 08:52 PM
Andreas Maurer
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:25:51 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

Does it strike some of the digerati here that expensive mechanical
altimeters with easily mis-read clock-like hands locked into either the
metric or US measurement systems are archaic?

GPS provides highly accurate, although not ATC compliant, altitude. Various
vendors provide electronic pressure altimeters with digital displays that
can be switched between meters and feet with the push of a button. Digital
pressure altitude sensors drive the "glass cockpits" of new GA aircraft.

I seems to me that clock-like altimeters designed 70 years ago and
maintained by watchmakers must be nearing their well-deserved retirement.


How many times have you praised yourself for having instruments on
board that do not need electricity to work properly?

I did that dozens of times - electricity is definitely not a reliable
thing in gliders.



Bye
Andreas
  #8  
Old August 24th 05, 09:32 PM
01-- Zero One
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Default

Whatever technology is behind the panel (analog or digital), the human
interface for instruments where trends and relative magnitude are
important then the "analog style" gauge is far superior to a digital
readout. It is easily discerned for ballpark, trends up or down, and
actual value rather precisely. So for airspeed indicators, varios, and
the like, the "analog style" interface is the way to go.



For battery voltage levels, radio frequencies, etc. where precision is
more important than trends or "ballpark" then a digital readout is just
the ticket.



Regards,



Larry





"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
:

Does it strike some of the digerati here that expensive mechanical
altimeters with easily mis-read clock-like hands locked into either the
metric or US measurement systems are archaic?

GPS provides highly accurate, although not ATC compliant, altitude. Various
vendors provide electronic pressure altimeters with digital displays that
can be switched between meters and feet with the push of a button. Digital
pressure altitude sensors drive the "glass cockpits" of new GA aircraft.

I seems to me that clock-like altimeters designed 70 years ago and
maintained by watchmakers must be nearing their well-deserved retirement.

Bill Daniels


"Bert Willing" wrote in
message ...
Yes, they are.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Roy Bourgeois" a écrit dans le message

de
news: ...
This may be a silly question - but are all metric altimeters
configured with 'Zero at 6 O'clock' as I saw in France?
I did not have trouble converting to meters/kilometers
but I did have trouble quickly reading the altimeter
with the zero at the bottom of the instrument face
(especially on the little 57mm instruments). Just
curious.

Roy








  #9  
Old August 24th 05, 10:17 PM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...

How many times have you praised yourself for having instruments on
board that do not need electricity to work properly?

I did that dozens of times - electricity is definitely not a reliable
thing in gliders.



Bye
Andreas


This amazes me. Electricity not reliable? I know this is "conventional
wisdom" but, I have never had an electronic device fail in flight but many,
many mechanical instruments have failed me. In fact, even when an
electronic device seemed to fail, it was always a mechanical switch or
battery contact that failed and not the device itself. (Hint: Use the best
electrical hardware money can buy.)

I sit here typing on an incredibly complex device called a Personal
Computer. The CPU alone has over 10 million transistors in it. If the PC
ever fails, the reason will almost certainly be the mechanical hard drive.
If the power grid fails to provide electricity, the UPS will keep it running
long enough for a graceful shutdown.

In just the last month, we have had a mechanical altimeter fail. The only
way we knew was that it couldn't be set to local field elevation. We had an
airspeed indicator fail to work at all. I had mechanical altimeter suddenly
lose 2000 feet as it became unstuck. The Winter mechanical vario in one
glider spends most of the time stuck at +10 Kts. so we rely on the only
reliable one - the Cambridge L-Nav. (If I ask, "Why the mechanical vario",
I hear, "For backup".) Mechanical instruments are neither rugged nor
reliable.

Mike Borgelt makes an excellent case for using his B40 with it's internal 9V
battery as a backup. Unlike the Winter, it has audio even while running on
the internal battery.

As for readability, I don't think you will find a "three hand" altimeter in
an airliner anymore. They have had drum-type digital displays since
sometime in the 1960's. Many studies have shown the digital readout is
harder to mis-read. Although, today these are likely to be just the back-up
to the digital "glass cockpit".

Bill Daniels



  #10  
Old August 24th 05, 10:35 PM
Stefan
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Default

Bill Daniels wrote:

This amazes me. Electricity not reliable? I know this is "conventional
wisdom" but, I have never had an electronic device fail in flight but many,


I had the battery fail twice on me: During my first 300km flight and
during my second 300km flight. Which meant that I had done two
successful 300km flights without GPS and acoustic vario, but none of
them was logged. :-P

Stefan
 




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