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Is it easier now?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 26th 04, 09:08 PM
ArtKramr
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Default Is it easier now?

Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

  #2  
Old February 26th 04, 09:13 PM
Tarver Engineering
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?


Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th Infantry)
liberated Dachau?


  #3  
Old February 26th 04, 09:31 PM
Dave Holford
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ArtKramr wrote:

Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?



Why not, military life and systems are so simple now.

Don't have to worry about lack of discipline setting off one of those
High Explosive things they used in WWII, or letting loose the launch
codes, or positions of SSBNs or TACAMOs, triggering a LASER or anything
that might have serious consequences.

Certainly no need to worry about saboteurs infiltrating military
facilities.

Yea, I guess there is no reason discipline couldn't be looser.

Dave
  #7  
Old February 26th 04, 10:33 PM
OXMORON1
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Art wrote:
"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever. All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired. Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)


Sorry they couldn't make Omaha Beach. IIRC at that time the 45th was somewhere
in Italy after the other Beach at Anzio.
Got two uncles buried there Art, they were "goof offs" in the National Guard
from about 1936 onwards. One was a LTC and the other a SFC.

In answer to your question, "Is it easier now? Yes and No, times change,
military is now all volunteer, generally smarter, better trained, more
specialized equipment, but the job is not easier. War is not easier and hasn't
been that way since Ugh and Orf fought it out with stone clubs. Killing is just
more efficient now.

You never used a periscopic sextant, correct? Well, I never used a GPS in an
airplane, but I probably dropped bombs made in the same plant as the ones you
dropped, maybe even in the same batch.
We used up all the old bombs and the guys now get to drop newer weapons, and
find the target a bit easier, but it isn't any easier.

The biggest difference that I can determine is that the enemy was easier to
identify in your day and the politicians didn't micromanage wars.

Rick
  #8  
Old February 26th 04, 10:50 PM
Paul J. Adam
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In message , ArtKramr
writes
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?.


Not as far as I can tell. In some ways it got worse: with "mission
command" you're not merely expected to fulfil your orders, but carry out
your commander's intent; and if that wasn't adequately communicated you
can get into a real mess. (It usually works and works very well indeed;
the recent fighting at Basra being an example, where units down to
platoon strength raided and recced without direct orders but fulfilling
the intent of "weaken the defenders and find out what's going on"). And
you'll _still_ be in the cacky for failing to obey an order unless it
was blatantly illegal.

Is
military life easier now than it was then?


A little more comfortable on exercises: Gore-Tex waterproofs, fleece
liners, better boots, good sleeping bags.

On the other hand, it's now a 24-hour battle, the enemy artillery is
larger and longer-ranged, chemical and biological weapons are
proliferated...

I'd have to say 'no'.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk
  #9  
Old February 26th 04, 11:10 PM
Leslie Swartz
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No;

But then again, we can kick the degree of difficulty UP a notch now that we
don't have to put up with incompetent draftees.

The WWII generation was an exercise in training to the lowest common
denominator.

Steve Swartz


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?. Is
military life easier now than it was then?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



  #10  
Old February 26th 04, 11:44 PM
Howard Berkowitz
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In article ,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"

Date: 2/26/04 12:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Did military discipline become looser and more liberal since WWI?.
Is
military life easier now than it was then?


Do you mean compared to when the Oklahoma National Guard (45th Infantry)
liberated Dachau?



"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance whatever.
All the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being fired.
Hardly the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)


I can't say if there was any armed resistance. IIRC, there was only
minor resistance at any of the camps that still had guards.

But I would state emphatically that any unit that liberated a camp
needed a great deal of discipline, suffered a great deal of stress, and
often displayed great moral courage in meeting a massive challenge for
which they were neither equipped nor trained. No combat unit had the
organic medical units to deal with the treatment -- and disease
prevention -- challenge that the liberating units met.

One very common observation was that after seeing a camp, the war became
easier when it involved killing Germans. I've heard this from American,
British and Russian accounts.

There was often no time for dignity, especially with the medical
knowledge of the time [1]. Even when the troops just bulldozed mass
graves and forced Germans to fill them, it was still something beyond
the nightmares of many. Lots of troops became medics on the spot.


[1] Unless there are specific situations such as contamination of a
water supply, or the presence of an arthropod-borne infectious
diseases, public health experts have come to the realization that
massive piles of dead bodies are more a psychological hazard than
an immediate risk of infection.
 




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