A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Instrument Flight Rules
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

VFR Practise Approaches



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old October 2nd 10, 09:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default VFR Practise Approaches

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

You miss the point again. ATC does *NOT* have to reply to you
at all, despite all your calls for Class B clearance. If you do not
hear from them, you're not getting into the Bravo at all. So you'd
better get below it (assuming you can without passing through it), stay
above it (assuming you can without passing through it), or go around
it.


Brad, I can only assume that you do not see the gaping holes in your
reasoning, but I certainly do, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I suggest you join the Internet Chess Club and "play" me there. I'm a very
poor and indifferent chess player, and you could beat me easily (I'm at the
bottom of the rankings). That would satisfy your desire to "beat" me, and your
efforts would not be doomed to failure as they are here. Additionally, it
would spare other people on this newsgroup your sophomoric attempts to
demonstrate a superiority over me that you do not possess, and the group could
return to intelligent discussion of aviation.

I'm tired of indulging you here.
  #42  
Old October 2nd 10, 02:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 1, 9:11*pm, (Don Poitras) wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 1, 7:07?pm, brian whatcott wrote:
In VMC, there are VFR approaches, and practice IFR approaches.
In IMC there are IFR approaches. Full stop.

Brian,
I think it's ATC facility dependent for IFR approaches and full stops.
I get touch and goes on IFR approaches on IFR clearances routinely my
neck of the woods.
Touch and goes also can be done on IFR XC round robins. *Just file to
a fix at the destination airport, pick up the approach clearance and
fly back home after the touch and go.


"Full stop" is British for "Period."

--
Don Poitras


Ahh, thanks! Never knew :-)
  #43  
Old October 2nd 10, 02:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 2, 2:13*am, A Guy Called Tyketto

So if you are told to maintain a given altitude while in the
Bravo with your clearance to enter the Bravo, you will be no where
near


'you can do what you want'. In short, you're a guest in Class B
airspace, and at the command of what ATC needs you to do, based on
their workload, other traffic, and/or any other limitations.


Well stated Brad. Guest being a key word.

Loitering is not permitted without explicit permission in Bravo.
  #44  
Old October 2nd 10, 03:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 2, 1:45*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

If you are thinking Class B, you can do what you want in Class B, UNLESS ATC
tells you otherwise, and PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT YOU HAVE A CLEARANCE into the
airspace before you enter it.


(emphasis added)


YOU CAN ADD ALL THE EMPHASIS YOU WANT, THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS WRONG.
  #46  
Old October 2nd 10, 05:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 2, 9:56*am, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 10/2/2010 7:28 AM, wrote:

On Oct 2, 1:45 am, Mxsmanic wrote:


If you are thinking Class B, you can do what you want in Class B, UNLESS ATC
tells you otherwise, and PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT YOU HAVE A CLEARANCE into the
airspace before you enter it.


(emphasis added)


YOU CAN ADD ALL THE EMPHASIS YOU WANT, THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS WRONG.


What's wrong about it?


The first sentence before his word unless..... Start from the
beginning of this thread see why I say this.

His response to the OP question is so far off base it's ridiculous.
  #48  
Old October 2nd 10, 09:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 2, 12:16*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

You are clearly reading more into his statement than what's there.


No.... He said I can do what I want in Bravo. I cannot.

I can decline an ATC instruction as PIC for remaining VMC rather then
penetrate a cloud or the unlikely possibility of traffic conflict, but
I CANNOT do as I well please in Bravo.

AS I EXPLAINED BEFORE.....

If KMEM says cleared visual into Memphis, I am not expected to go
willy nilly. I am expected to make a straight line approach into
Memphis. Not take a scenic tour along the route from my position to
the threshold. If I wish such a deviation, I best get a clearance.
UNNECESSARY S turns slows my ground speed and I am sure would mess up
ATC's chess game of airplanes BEHIND me (not even considering the line
of planes waiting for me to vacate the piece of pavement in front of
me after landing).

Same for altitude. If I am 2000, with a visual cleared to land with
the above instructions, I best not climb without a clearance as I
would suspect that is not expected by ATC and that airspace above is
occupied by another airplane with the expectation I am to descend and
land.

Key thing is the expectation. Anything unexpected by ATC, I better
request a clearance. This is how I run my shop in the real world.

I have heard enough on Bravo freq. to substantiate what I am saying
where somebody gummed up the works and got chewed out on the air
because they did something unexpectedly.

Mx MSFS world nothing like the real deal and I sure hope you can
differentiate that even if he can't????????
  #50  
Old October 3rd 10, 03:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default VFR Practise Approaches

On Oct 2, 5:43*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

Please explain exactly
what he said can be done in B which you believe cannot.


I JUST DID. Let me repeat myself AGAIN so we are very clear where Mx
is wrong. He said I can do what I want in Bravo. I cannot.

RE-READ MY PRIOR POST.

To repeat myself AGAIN. You can't climb when you are expected to
descend. You can't change course without ATC permission in Bravo.
NOT SURE WHY YOU SNIPPED THAT OUT????

Lets go this route, be my guest if YOU wish to climb when making an
approach to land or deviate from your EXPECTED heading without a
clearance in Bravo. Not my ticket on the line. (see further down on
how I handle Bravo)

On Bravo transitions, when I request transition to XYZ airport, AFTER
getting my Bravo clearance, I may get maintain at or below 4500. Lack
of heading instructions does not give me permission to deviate. ATC
expects a straight line from entry to XYZ airport before you exit
Bravo. You best not be loitering over one's house while transitioning
WITHOUT permission as ATC just may be planning that airspace behind
you.

AGAIN If I am going to do something different then what is expected, I
will request from ATC permission. That is what I have done in KMEM,
KPIT, KMSY, KBWI and KCLE bravo airspace for sight seeing and I have
NOT been gigged for any time I queried to deviate.

With all the radio traffic, you have to be concise and to the point
and KNOW THE AREA for sight seeing in Bravo. I got from approach,
deviation approved, advise when returning back on course when I did
sight seeing tours in these areas.

I have on the flip side been denied sight seeing twice due to traffic
in the area. (houses were near IA approach fixes).

Again, if YOU want to change headings IN BRAVO without notifying ATC
JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T ISSUE YOU HEADING INSTRUCTIONS, be my guest,
it won't be my ticket on the line. You just may be turning into an IA
approach course filled up with airplanes!!!!!

Lately I've noticed that Anthony has been making a real effort to
make it clear that he only simulates. Perhaps it's time to give
him a break?


He sure DID NOT say he never flew a real plane in this thread until I
called him out on it did he!!!!!

He never answered my question about his experience in a real plane in
Bravo did he!!!!!

He won't get a break out of me until he stops lying to whom he
responds to. At least the person receiving the answer will at least
have a warning he has NO REAL WORLD experience.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LAS approaches Ron Garret Instrument Flight Rules 10 March 28th 09 07:46 AM
My First GPS Approaches john smith Instrument Flight Rules 10 November 9th 04 10:14 PM
ILS PRM approaches Riddler Instrument Flight Rules 2 October 28th 04 12:37 PM
Channel News Asia: Taiwan Jets Practise Emergency Landings on Freeway Amid Tensions with China Dionaea muscipula Military Aviation 0 July 21st 04 08:18 AM
NDB approaches -- what are they good for? Dylan Smith Instrument Flight Rules 15 July 10th 03 09:15 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.