Bible-beater pilots

To be perfectly honest with you Jay, most of my colleagues and myself
are/were under the impression that most Americans are very religious, you
know God bless America and all that stuff, where it is the opposite in
Australia. In saying that, it surprises me that you aren't. I am not
religious myself.

Actually, it was just reported (on NPR) the other day that Americans are the
most religious people in the world. (I think they measured that by asking
"How often you go to church?" -- as if THAT has anything to do with
religion.) So I suppose I should be thankful that I haven't run into this
situation before.

When I find myself in a situation such as yours Jay, I cannot help but to
"debate" if you like, the existance of God

If I'm sitting around a camp fire, I'm the same way. I'll debate religion
until I run out of breath.

I think it was the utter "out of left field" nature of these guys that
caught us both off guard. We were feeling really good about ourselves, and
the day, and the flight, and all the sudden *wham!* -- we found ourselves
knee-deep in a religious debate neither of us expected.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


and the hipocracy of the various
churches around the world. I don't let it become personal or childish but
it
invariably ends in the religious person having no answer but the old
"Because it is Gods way/wish" or what ever. But that's just me Jay, there
are times when I'll be straight to the point and say I'm not interested
thank you, and adopt the speak to the hand pose. I think they should be
treated like telemarketers. Keep it short and straight to the point, but
give it to them right back, it's your free time and if your like me, they
don't come very often, don't let it be spoiled by misdirected people. If
they stop talking and the silence is awkward, let them know that you won't
be offended if they move to another table.

Scet

Of course, if indeed I should end up standing in front of St. Peter or
Jesus on Judgement Day, it will be a major "Oops"-moment. ;-)

Of course, would a good God condemn you to eternal damnation for making a
75-year mistake?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news7pvb.267219$Fm2.280642@attbi_s04...

Sadly, I must conclude that you are sincere. I know this is going down an
off-topic sink hole, but I would be interested to hear another pilot (I
assume you are a pilot, if you're here?) give a cogent, logical,
scientifically-proven defense of your beliefs.



Oh boy is this one going to run and run...
What's the betting we'll get more posts than the
JFK thread??

--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/

Jay Honeck wrote:

I know this is going down an off-topic sink hole, but I would be
interested to hear another pilot (I assume you are a pilot, if
you're here?) give a cogent, logical, scientifically-proven defense
of your beliefs.

Is that possible?

Yes. It was all contained in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
The answer to the ultimate question was "42". And that just about sums
it all up.

Jay,

good God


That concept doesn't hold up to any real world check at all. Look at
us!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay,

Discussing whacko pilots


BTW, have another look at the EI eingine monitor ads.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article , James Robinson
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:

I know this is going down an off-topic sink hole, but I would be
interested to hear another pilot (I assume you are a pilot, if
you're here?) give a cogent, logical, scientifically-proven defense
of your beliefs.

Is that possible?

Yes. It was all contained in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
The answer to the ultimate question was "42". And that just about sums
it all up.

Amen, brother!

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

???

What chip am I carrying?

Re-read your own post. The whole tone is one of over-reaction. Granted,
these guys were obnoxiously intrusive, no excuse, but you do sort of carry
on about them. From the time they said Grace before lunch, you took
thirteen paragraphs to relate something that could have been told in three
or four. I think you really *wanted* to rant. Clearly, evangelizing
organized religion is a hot-button with you.

And how have they ruined more than my lunch?


By your own account, you and Mary rehashed the event all the way home. I'm
betting the subject wasn't dropped on arrival back at Iowa City, either.
And the following day you were still incensed enough to post a rather
lengthy message to the NG. So, these guys had you locked and stressed for a
day and a half, anyway.

Jay, I'm no missionary, but I'm not an atheist or agnostic, either. There
are whackos everywhere, in all walks of life. There are guys I know in
airline cockpits I wouldn't want moving into my neighborhood! You just
can't let them get you wired like this!

That's all I meant.

JG

Jay,

I'm not going to pile on here (really!), but I think Ian has a point.

When I read your missive, I immediately had the same initial reaction as Ian
apparently had. That is, perhaps you were uncomfortable with the conversation
not so much because you were offended, but because it made you suddenly aware of
"unfinished business" in your spiritual life.

I grew up in neither a Catholic nor a "Bible thumper" household. As such, I
don't carry much baggage, for better or for worse. I find some major problems to
the point of corruption with both extremes. When I read the Bible, I find no
mention of a pope/venal sins/mortal sins/purgatory/limbo/private
confessional/etc. Nor do I find it written that it is necessary to attend church
twice on Sunday and again on Wednesday, speak in tongues, claim to be "born
again", or not allowed to drink/gamble/swear/etc. Also, I haven't read anywhere
in the Bible that one cannot lead a moral life or enter the Kingdom (of heaven)
without being a practicing Jew or Christian (not that the word Christian appears
in the Bible that I'm aware of). All of this stuff that one camp or another
places emphasis on is just window dressing. The Bible is written in plain enough
language for one to understand what the point is.

The point is ... The only way to ENSURE that one enters the Kingdom is through
the grace of God, which for Christians is conveyed by belief in Jesus as Savior.
EVERYTHING else is secondary. Now, one can read the Old Testament or the Gospels
and find where the Lord want us to lead what can only be termed a moral life.
Mostly follow the "golden rule" if you distill it right down to dregs. Most all
of us were given free will to make our own decisions. Some of us are evil and
some are not. But we all are sinners and most of us can and should try do
better. But (and I can't quote chapter and verse) one cannot be asssured of
entering the Kingdom though good works alone.

Now most of us have heard that the Lord works in mysterious ways. I believe
that. I have never witnessed any miracles. Never had any "revelations". I don't
aurally hear the Lord speaking to me. Never had a vision. Never spoke in
tongues. I don't see an image of Mother Teresa in baked goods nor Jesus in the
shadow thown by a bug zapper (not that anybody after His time knows what He
looked like). But I find that I am occasionally moved to do something or make a
particular decision by a force that just comes out of nowhere. And every time
that has happend and I "listened", the result has been a blessing to me or to
someone I've helped. I can't igore that this is how the Lord nudges me to do His
work from time to time. My taking time to write this rant is the result of one
of these nudges. I hope it somehow provides a blessing to you or someone else
who might read this. In any case, please consider the possibility that your
encounter and the feelings it rasied a nudge you are getting from Him.

My advice is this: Put aside all the Catholic guilt trip and your reaction to
it. Pick up one of those Gideon King James Bibles you have at the hotel (or
better yet, get a modern translation), and read the Gospels again. After that,
decide one way or another what it's going to be for you. Get your spiritual
house in order - stop sitting on the fence. Once you've done that, you won't
feel so uncomfortable the next time you get suckered into a dialouge with
someone trying to spread whatever message that have.

Disclaimer: I'm not a theologian, preacher, priest, elder, deacon, minister,
pastor, or rabbi. Just a sinner and sheep in His flock.

Required aviation content: The existence of flying machines just points out to
me that the laws of physics are just too complicated and amazing to have been
left to chance.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24

Ian wrote:

Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?

snip!.

Your rejection of the message does not diminish its truth.

you want, including none at all. When you're standing at the final
judgement you're going to feel pretty silly remembering how you should have
listened, believed, acted, and provided some leadership to your family in
this most important area of their lives. Are you going to teach your

And thus speaketh the inherent hypocrisy in all evangelical people...
the "right" to judge others which you all feel you have, but sadly,
according to every faith on this planet, you clearly lack.

Remember, judge not, lest ye be judged.