"Rescue" flight, PPL

Hey, Roger: Any change that you could provide a reference to that letter
(ie. a place online from which I could print this out)? It's something I
think my club should see.

Whhat Andrew said! I would really like a copy of this.


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Joe Johnson opined

Last week, as I returned to my rental FBO after an evening local flight, the
clerk on duty said an instructor and his student were stuck at an airport
about 40 minutes away. I spoke to the instructor on the phone and I agreed
to fly up and bring them back. He mentioned that, of course, I wouldn't
have to pay for the aircraft time. Did I violate the terms of my PPL by
accepting free time in the airplane as "compensation" for picking them up
and bringing them back? Should I therefore have paid a proportional share
of the costs?

You broke the rules.

A good quick test: Unless you are worse off financially after a flight, you
are doing something wrong.



-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

In article .net,
"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote:


Whhat Andrew said! I would really like a copy of this.

Yeah, I'd like to see this letter also. I can't believe this guy was in
violation. If he was then anyone who uses a friends airplane would be
just as "guilty".

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Dave S wrote:

Is your neighbor logging the driving time in his logbook for the
furtherance of a commercial drivers license??

At the point where the needed hours are logged and any further hours don't
help in that regard does it suddenly get legal?


I've pondered the same question. What is legal is a grey area and I think
the question is whether the FAA would try to prosecute under those
circumstances when you have the strong argument that the "free" time has no
commercial value to you. Perhaps if you *really* annoyed someone there they
would go after you but normally I would suspect something like this is well
under their radar.

"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...

A good quick test: Unless you are worse off financially after a flight,
you
are doing something wrong.


I know you meant this part humorously, but this cannot be right, since you
are allowed to fly "in furtherance of your business," which would leave you
financially ahead.

Bill Denton wrote:

Is my neighbor's usage of my car "compensation", placing him in violation of
the licensing laws?

If your hypothetical State requires a certain number of hours driving cars like yours
to qualify for a chaffeur's license, yes.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Peter Gottlieb wrote:


"Newps" wrote in message
...


Dave S wrote:

Is your neighbor logging the driving time in his logbook for the
furtherance of a commercial drivers license??

At the point where the needed hours are logged and any further hours
don't help in that regard does it suddenly get legal?


I've pondered the same question.

Using this reasoning, simply not logging the hours - or otherwise not
counting them towards anything - would convert this from illegal to legal.
Weird...but this is the FAA under discussion, recall laugh.

I'd really love to read this letter. If the issue is the counting of time
towards a rating, then not counting the time might be a loophole. If the
issue, though, is getting flight time - ie. time when we're enjoying
ourselves - for free, then no loophole.

Well...we could put in our log the comment "didn't have fun", or some such
laugh. But who'd believe that?

- Andrew

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message om...
Last week, as I returned to my rental FBO after an evening local flight, the
clerk on duty said an instructor and his student were stuck at an airport
about 40 minutes away. I spoke to the instructor on the phone and I agreed
to fly up and bring them back. He mentioned that, of course, I wouldn't
have to pay for the aircraft time. Did I violate the terms of my PPL by
accepting free time in the airplane as "compensation" for picking them up
and bringing them back? Should I therefore have paid a proportional share
of the costs?

The FAA has said in the past that flying for free is compensation and
requires a commercial. For CFIs its very easy since we already have a
commercial, we just need to keep up our class 2 medical. Most CFIs do
because it allows you to do the occasional local sight seeing pax too.

-Robert

The FAA has said in the past that flying for free is compensation and
requires a commercial. For CFIs its very easy since we already have a
commercial, we just need to keep up our class 2 medical. Most CFIs do
because it allows you to do the occasional local sight seeing pax too.

-Robert



What if you did the "rescue" flight but you DID NOT log the hours?

Would that count? Or would you get in trouble for some OTHER rule violation for
not logging some hours you actually flew?

take care

Blll

Here is the letter:

http://baldeagleflyingclub.org/FAAopinion.pdf

I apologize for the crappy quality. AOPA faxed it to me while my cartridge
was on its last legs.

I wouldn't let your club get too worked up over this for the reasons
described above. You might want to ask your FSDO though as attitudes and
interpretations vary from district to district.

Basically, if you think you have found a cute way to interpret the rules
that lets you rack up a significant amount of free flying, you are probably
in violation; especially if your primary purpose would appear to a
reasonable person to be getting the free flying.

If it is fairly clear that an occasional violation of a non-safety related
rule like this one is incidental to another purpose, such as helping someone
out or getting a club airplane moved, it is very unlikely that the FAA would
take an interest. They can barely keep track of the airlines and the 135
operators.

The insurance company will probably follow the same dynamics but you should
check with them. I have had excellent experience discussing things like
this very frankly with Avemco. You get points with them for asking and
appearing to be concerned and attempting to do the right thing. They'll
remember that if there is an incident.
--

Roger Long



"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
James M. Knox wrote:

Roger gave you the correct answer.

Hey, Roger: Any change that you could provide a reference to that letter
(ie. a place online from which I could print this out)? It's something I
think my club should see.

[...]
So where *does* the rare action come from?

What about a case where an accident occurs during the "free" flight?
Could
an insurance company use this to create additional problems?

- Andrew