ATC of Near-Miss over BOS

Saw this over at LiveATC.net forums. Thought it may be of interest.

I thought the controller was very professional and avoided an over the air
arguement nicely.

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/files/k...r_miss_156.mp3

Marco Leon

Saw this over at LiveATC.net forums. Thought it may be of interest.

I thought the controller was very professional and avoided an over the air
arguement nicely.

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/files/k...r_miss_156.mp3

Got a time on this? We could watch it on
http://www4.passur.com/bos.html
if we did.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

How does something like this get resolved? What is the accuracy of ATC's
transponder data?

Michael

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
Saw this over at LiveATC.net forums. Thought it may be of interest.

I thought the controller was very professional and avoided an over the
air
arguement nicely.

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/files/k...r_miss_156.mp3

Got a time on this? We could watch it on
http://www4.passur.com/bos.html
if we did.

Looking at www.aa.com shows flight 818 arriving at 00:34 on 8/24. Start
watching about 00:18 and you'll see the MD80 and the Lear.

Michael 182 wrote:
How does something like this get resolved? What is the accuracy of ATC's
transponder data?

Within 50' either way. If you're at 1049', it'll show 1000'. Move up one foot
and it'll show 1100'.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

The replay seems to show the Lear did not level at 5,000.

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
Saw this over at LiveATC.net forums. Thought it may be of interest.

I thought the controller was very professional and avoided an over the air
arguement nicely.

Wow... I listened to the transmission and watched the replay on
passur.com, and have a question: if both planes respond to the
controller that they have the other in sight, and the controller tells
them to maintain visual separation (which it sounds like was done in
this case), does that eliminate the standard IFR separation rules? It
looks like the AA pilot was right in that the LJ came within 300 feet,
but since they were both "seeing and avoiding", is that technically an
FAR violation? i.e., was the controller still obligated to provide
separation?

--
Guy Elden Jr.

john smith wrote:
The replay seems to show the Lear did not level at 5,000.

You're right. Looks like he climbed right through the MD-80 altitude.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

john smith wrote

The replay seems to show the Lear did not level at 5,000.

Nor was he required to since he had been cleared to maintain
visual separation.....and separation is separation.
One man's "near miss" is another's "missed him by a mile".

Bob Moore

Bob Moore wrote:

Nor was he required to since he had been cleared to maintain
visual separation.....and separation is separation.
One man's "near miss" is another's "missed him by a mile".

A few months ago I overheard something similar on Syracuse, NY's ATC feed.
A regional Dash-8 was being vectored north around the airport for an
approach while a student and instructor were flying some practice maneuvers
just north of the airport. Normally the instructional flight would have
been many miles further north, but there were low clouds in this designated
practice area.

The instructional flight was given a restriction to maintain at or below
2,000 feet and the Dash-8 was told to maintain 2,500 feet. ATC called the
C172 traffic for the Dash-8 and the pilot of the Dash-8 replied he had
traffic in sight.

A moment later, the Dash-8 pilot called ATC to report that he was
responding to a TCAS alert. He then made an unprofessional comment
directly to the C172 stating that there was no way they were at their
required altitude. ATC responded that through this entire event the C172
was at the altitude to which they were originally restricted.

Given the unprofessional comment made by the Dash-8 pilot, it seemed to me
that after calling traffic in sight, both pilots went heads down in
preparation for landing and the TCAS alert shocked them back outside.

--
Peter


















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