Corky's engine choice

On 24 Jul 2003 18:56:58 -0700, (Jay) wrote:

Hey Corky,

What was your beef with the 13B? I have to replace a car coming off
lease in the next few months and I'm seriously looking at older RX-7s
just to get a flavor for the power plant.

I like the idea of a no-seize failure mode and the idea of it being 2
co-axial engines in one. The higher fuel burn I can deal with,
especially since its mogas.

I initially liked the engine for all the reasons you and many others
liked it. But as I tore it apart and rebuilt it, I started to have
doubts. I didn't have doubts about the engine durability, the doubts
I had were about living with it when it was done.

I had the engine some 10 years ago and at that time, the only real
choice for a PSRU was Ross Aero. Lou Ross was a raconteur and loved
to go on about how people over engineer things and that keeping stuff
simple was the best way. During this time, there was another company
trying to use the Mazda engine and they were running into huge
problems with torsional vibration. They spent years engineering and
machining until they finally got something that would last longer than
a few minutes without braking the prop right off.

This was unnerving, although Lou said nothing of the sort was
happening with his gearbox.

So I sat down and wrote down all the pluses I could think of and all
the minuses. There were a lot more minuses than pluses.

On the debit side were the following:

1. I have to fabricate a new intake manifold.
2. The exhaust system runs some 400 to 500 degrees hotter than a four
stroke cycle engine.
3. Fuel milage appeared to be somewhat worse than a four stroke cycle
engine of similar power.
4. The recommendation was to remove the oil injector pump (this is the
pump that drips oil into the intake manifold to lubricate the rotor
tip seals) This meant that you had to carry oil you would be adding
to the fuel tanks. This also meant that you had to calculate how much
oil you had to add to the tanks every time you refueled.
5. The engine is unbelievably loud sounding like a cross between a two
stroke motorcycle dragster and chainsaw held next to your head. There
would definately be a need for a muffler.

On the plus side, it was an engine that was close to being
indestructable. Even if it blew a seal it would have run till you
landed. Would not have started again, but it would get you down.

I pictured myself having to refuel more frequently and having to add
oil to the tanks and decided that I really didn't want to do that.

In the end, I felt it was better to deal with the devil you knew than
the devil you didn't know.

Corky Scott

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:34:41 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

So I finally decided that I had to turn back to the auto coversion
again. At this point, things began to go right. Bruce Frank pointed
out why the Ford V-6 makes sense: millions of them out there, hundreds
of PSRU's and a lot of running time with a good record and it's a
light weight engine.

I found an engine salvager who was willing to ship any number of Ford
V-6's to me for $150 each. At that price, I took two, thinking that
if I found a problem part, I could just yank it from the other engine.

Corky,

It's probably been asked and answered a million times, but why not the
4.3L Chevy or a Subaru? I won't dispute that the 3.8L Ford has been
used successfully and that head gasket problem has a fix but...

Other than Bruce, and I haven't seen his newsletter lately, there just
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people using/supporting the Ford
3.8L today. Maybe I'm reading in the wrong places, but people are
very vocal/have websites about their use of the Mazda rotary and
sometimes Chevys, Subarus, etc. I don't think Northwest Aero (or
anyone else) even sells a complete Ford PSRU anymore. I'd just assume
be on a platform with lots of community support and ready made
parts/PSRUs.

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N38.6 W121.4

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:59:51 -0700, Barry S.
wrote:

It's probably been asked and answered a million times, but why not the
4.3L Chevy or a Subaru? I won't dispute that the 3.8L Ford has been
used successfully and that head gasket problem has a fix but...

Other than Bruce, and I haven't seen his newsletter lately, there just
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people using/supporting the Ford
3.8L today. Maybe I'm reading in the wrong places, but people are
very vocal/have websites about their use of the Mazda rotary and
sometimes Chevys, Subarus, etc. I don't think Northwest Aero (or
anyone else) even sells a complete Ford PSRU anymore. I'd just assume
be on a platform with lots of community support and ready made
parts/PSRUs.

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N38.6 W121.4

Actually, there are quite a few who have converted the engine and have
put impressive amounts of hours on them.

There were several reasons for using the 3.8L Ford rather than a Chevy
V-6.

1. Weight, the Ford 3.8L V-6 was one of the lightest engines of it's
type at the time.

2. Availability, there are millions of them, although you could say
the same for the Chevy.

3. Blanton designed his PSRU for the Ford and had made plans available
for it and there was a lot of information on it.

4. There was a newsletter on the Ford and pretty much everything that
could go wrong with it has been discovered and discussed.

5. It was really inexpensive.

Corky Scott

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:15:40 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:59:51 -0700, Barry S.
wrote:

It's probably been asked and answered a million times, but why not the
4.3L Chevy or a Subaru? I won't dispute that the 3.8L Ford has been
used successfully and that head gasket problem has a fix but...

Other than Bruce, and I haven't seen his newsletter lately, there just
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people using/supporting the Ford
3.8L today. Maybe I'm reading in the wrong places, but people are
very vocal/have websites about their use of the Mazda rotary and
sometimes Chevys, Subarus, etc. I don't think Northwest Aero (or
anyone else) even sells a complete Ford PSRU anymore. I'd just assume
be on a platform with lots of community support and ready made
parts/PSRUs.

__________________
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N38.6 W121.4

Actually, there are quite a few who have converted the engine and have
put impressive amounts of hours on them.

I've never had the opportunity to see a Ford conversion. Anyone out
towards Sacramento have one? (N38.6 W121.4)

3. Blanton designed his PSRU for the Ford and had made plans available
for it and there was a lot of information on it.

This forces you to build the PSRU or buy used. I think I'd prefer to
buy a PSRU new off the shelf which I believe makes the Ford less
desirable. Mr. Blanton is no longer with us and I'm not aware of a
"custodian" for the redrive design. So other than builders and the
newsletter, there is no manufacturer or designer formally supporting
the conversion. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not, but you
can never have too much support.

4. There was a newsletter on the Ford and pretty much everything that
could go wrong with it has been discovered and discussed.

I do get Bruce's newsletter.. (Haven't seen one in a while and I know
my subscription isn't up -- hint hint nudge nudge) but their just
seems to be more interest in other engine conversions. I still have
my EAA 52 badge, although not a member anymore, and I remember
chatting with several people about engines in the projects. One
Glastar builder investigated the Subaru and went with a Lycoming
instead. Another builder was looking at the Subaru, but wasn't sure
he wanted to make his build any more complicated. I can't recall
anyone wanting to use the Ford V6.

I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product.

Best Wishes,
Barry

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N38.6 W121.4

OK, guys, everyone has shamed me into it. I have been pretty busy with a new
job, BUT, I will endeavor to try to get the next issue out before the end of
August.

On additional subjects in this thread, right now there is no one of whom I
am aware that is manufacturing PSRUs for the Ford. Johnny at Northwest Aero
discontinued his, though he still makes them for other engines, because of
low demand. Johnny also used to build the engines, but again there was low
demand (probably because the Ford engine is the only conversion out there
that has info available allowing anyone to build his own). If one is
interested Johnny may be talked into building a PSRU on a one-off basis. If
you desire to build your own I can provide some helpful information.

One of the limiting things about the Ford has been the lack of performance
parts...not that we needed to build a racing engine, but we needed a source
for such things as roller rockers for those who wanted to get those last few
horses. The first place I have found that actually has stuff in stock and
ships it when you send money is Morana Racing
http://www.moranav6racing.com/

Besides the fancy electronic throttle body injection runner intakes they
have they are now working on the carb intake manifold and I hope to see
something useful in a few months.(Corky sent them one of his old intake
manifolds to study)

Bruce A. Frank


"Barry S." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:15:40 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:59:51 -0700, Barry S.
wrote:

It's probably been asked and answered a million times, but why not the
4.3L Chevy or a Subaru? I won't dispute that the 3.8L Ford has been
used successfully and that head gasket problem has a fix but...

Other than Bruce, and I haven't seen his newsletter lately, there just
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people using/supporting the Ford
3.8L today. Maybe I'm reading in the wrong places, but people are
very vocal/have websites about their use of the Mazda rotary and
sometimes Chevys, Subarus, etc. I don't think Northwest Aero (or
anyone else) even sells a complete Ford PSRU anymore. I'd just assume
be on a platform with lots of community support and ready made
parts/PSRUs.

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with
'mail'.
N38.6 W121.4

Actually, there are quite a few who have converted the engine and have
put impressive amounts of hours on them.

I've never had the opportunity to see a Ford conversion. Anyone out
towards Sacramento have one? (N38.6 W121.4)

3. Blanton designed his PSRU for the Ford and had made plans available
for it and there was a lot of information on it.

This forces you to build the PSRU or buy used. I think I'd prefer to
buy a PSRU new off the shelf which I believe makes the Ford less
desirable. Mr. Blanton is no longer with us and I'm not aware of a
"custodian" for the redrive design. So other than builders and the
newsletter, there is no manufacturer or designer formally supporting
the conversion. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not, but you
can never have too much support.

4. There was a newsletter on the Ford and pretty much everything that
could go wrong with it has been discovered and discussed.

I do get Bruce's newsletter.. (Haven't seen one in a while and I know
my subscription isn't up -- hint hint nudge nudge) but their just
seems to be more interest in other engine conversions. I still have
my EAA 52 badge, although not a member anymore, and I remember
chatting with several people about engines in the projects. One
Glastar builder investigated the Subaru and went with a Lycoming
instead. Another builder was looking at the Subaru, but wasn't sure
he wanted to make his build any more complicated. I can't recall
anyone wanting to use the Ford V6.

I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product.

Best Wishes,
Barry

__________________
Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with
'mail'.
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