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#1
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a
Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#2
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Good heavens. Do I understand you to mean under the seat pan? Why on
earth would you want to take such a chance? "Little chance" is too much for me. I put the water in a pouch behind the seat backor stuffed behind my head. Sarah Martin Gregorie wrote: A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#3
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! Gav At 22:06 11 January 2007, Martin Gregorie wrote: A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned 'lashing a Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick' in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#4
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head
next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! |
#5
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many control runs back there for it to get tangled up with. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#6
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it
would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! |
#7
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On Friday, January 12, 2007 at 2:30:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... |
#8
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On 5/2/21 1:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Friday, January 12, 2007 at 2:30:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote: Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... Here's my chance to (maybe, har har) set new RAS records for contributing to an old thread (14 years) while maximizing thread drift!!! (Will I need a new record category? Who's in charge of RAS, anyway?) I blame this on the thunderstorm that just drove me indoors... So, OK, there's always devils in the details, but on the assumption that the following quoted statement lacks any intentional hyperbole "...an 11g deceleration will...liquefy your internal organs", if he could, Col Paul Stapp (and many other investigators in years since) and considerable, multi-field, crash data (e.g. from aviation, auto racing, etc.) might beg to differ. Many a (sore and bruised) person has survived up to 20g decelerations, if I'm to believe lots of "technical crash stuff" I've read over the years. And, no, I'm not volunteering to become one! That quibble noted, strapping things firmly (in addition to yourself, of course, hyuk hyuk), is definitely a good thing, in the event of crash-induced deceleration... Bob W. |
#9
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On Sun, 02 May 2021 12:41:33 -0700, Tony wrote:
AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... I just use the bum bag thingy that Glasfaser sell for fitting in Libelles. Its well made, pretty strong with a 2mm fibreglass base and clips rather tenaciously to the rigging spigots on top of the mainspars. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#10
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Tell that to these guys...
https://vimeo.com/292235615 Dan 5J On 5/2/21 1:41 PM, Tony wrote: AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... |
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