Why did Bush join the national guard?

"ArtKramr" wrote

Back then people were eating out of garbage cans to survive you moron.

Noi asshole. The war was on. War production was in full swing and employment
100%.

"The federal government first became involved in fighting hunger in 1939,
when it began a food stamp program, which was curtailed in 1943 because
of food shortages linked with World War II. By the 1960s, one-fifth of the
U.S. population lived in poverty and was at risk of hunger."
-- Health & Human Services Report

There has *never* been 100% employment in the United States, moron.

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Bob Coe"
Date: 9/6/2004 8:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: sJ%_c.18832$ni.18600@okepread01

"ArtKramr" wrote

Back then people were eating out of garbage cans to survive you moron.

Noi asshole. The war was on. War production was in full swing and
employment
100%.

"The federal government first became involved in fighting hunger in 1939,
when it began a food stamp program, which was curtailed in 1943 because
of food shortages linked with World War II. By the 1960s, one-fifth of the
U.S. population lived in poverty and was at risk of hunger."
-- Health & Human Services Report

There has *never* been 100% employment in the United States, moron.


I lived through that period and no one was eating out of garbage cans you
stupid little *******.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

There has *never* been 100% employment in the United States, moron.

I lived through that period and no one was eating out of garbage cans you
stupid little *******.

Moron, you want to know why they hired women in the shipyards and the
airplane factories? So the Black and Indian males couldn't get hired.

I'm not black, Indian, or Japanese, but a lot of **** went down that you seem
to have closed your eyes to.

In article ,
(ArtKramr) writes:
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (Peter Stickney)
Date: 9/5/2004 6:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(ArtKramr) writes:
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 2:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
. ..

And as far as I know, nobody was flying B26's during the Vietnam era.


Well, not Martin B-26s.


And the highest rate of killing its crews.One a day in Tampa Bay. The
widowmaker, The B-dash-Crash.The flying Prostitute, The Flying Coffin.
Got it
now wannabee?

Art, The Army Air Force Statistical Digest disagrees with you. While
the Martin B-26 had the highest accident rate of any _Medium_ Bomber
(Medium being the B-25, B-26, and the Lockheed B-34), it never
approached the accident rate of the A-20, which had roughly twice teh
number lost per 100,000 Flight Hours, and all of the various
Fighter/Pursuit types.

Those aren't subjective impressions - they're hard facts, backed up by
the cold, unfeeling numbers.


But the frigging A-20 was yanked out of service while we flew B-26 in combat
to the bitter end. And of course you never had to fly the B-26 so what the
hell did you care?

The "frigging A-20" was in service throughout the war (From the very
beginning, actually, The same airplane, as the DB-7, was in service
with the French Armee de l'Air in 1940, and flew against the Germans)

They served until 1945, wherever teh AAF was - North Africa, the Med,
the ETO, and in the Pacific. They were replaced in mid-45, about the
same timeframe as the replacement of the Martin B-26, by the same
airplane - the Douglas A-26. It's worth noting that both the A-20 and
the Martin B-26 were dropped like hot potatoes after the war ended.

And no, I never flew a B-26. But I do care about facts.

Art, I consider your writings on your wartime experience, and your
photos to be valuable insights into what went on in a B-26 in the
ETO. And I don't gainsay your experience in that area at all.
Your subjective views on that subject, when placed in the context of
objective fact, add to my understanding of that period in time.

The political ranting, however, has been, at the least, over the top.
You're placing yourself into the "Immune to reason" category.
I'm not about to change your mind, nor am i willing to try.
But your unreasoned, ill-favored lashing out at anybody and everybody
who disagrees with you, in the most infantile and ridiculous ways
possible, do neither your favored candidate or yourself any good.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

"ArtKramr" wrote

The "reserve" means held back.

Not at the time. The Guard & Reserve troops were fully assimilated into the
war effort.

Back then it was a disgrace to join the reserve.

Times have changes since WWII.

Kids were leaving school and coming back in Marine, Army and Navy
uniforms and
we all wanted to go. I wanted to also but after the represent of the
ArmyAir
Corps addressed us my mind was made up. I wwanted to fly. And there was a
song
popular at that time. It went " Zoot suits and parachutes and wings of
silver
too. He'll buzz the clouds as his daddy used to do" I was hooked by the
Air
Corp I was afraid I couldn't pass the exams but I was good at math and
physics
and passed easily. The physical was no problem since I was on the track
and
football teams and in good shape. Next thing I knew I was 10,000 feet over
the
Rhine in heavy flak fields doing what I was trained to do. And I'm still
here
to tell about it.

A non-answer to my question. But that is to be expected.

Pete

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Pete"
Date: 9/6/2004 11:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote

The "reserve" means held back.

Not at the time. The Guard & Reserve troops were fully assimilated into the
war effort.

Back then it was a disgrace to join the reserve.

Times have changes since WWII.

Kids were leaving school and coming back in Marine, Army and Navy
uniforms and
we all wanted to go. I wanted to also but after the represent of the
ArmyAir
Corps addressed us my mind was made up. I wwanted to fly. And there was a
song
popular at that time. It went " Zoot suits and parachutes and wings of
silver
too. He'll buzz the clouds as his daddy used to do" I was hooked by the
Air
Corp I was afraid I couldn't pass the exams but I was good at math and
physics
and passed easily. The physical was no problem since I was on the track
and
football teams and in good shape. Next thing I knew I was 10,000 feet over
the
Rhine in heavy flak fields doing what I was trained to do. And I'm still
here
to tell about it.

A non-answer to my question. But that is to be expected.

Pete

Screw you.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ubject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Bob Coe"
Date: 9/6/2004 10:49 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 2r1%c.18966$ni.10@okepread01

"ArtKramr" wrote

There has *never* been 100% employment in the United States, moron.

I lived through that period and no one was eating out of garbage cans you
stupid little *******.

Moron, you want to know why they hired women in the shipyards and the
airplane factories? So the Black and Indian males couldn't get hired.

I'm not black, Indian, or Japanese, but a lot of **** went down that you seem
to have closed your eyes to.


No one was eating out of garbage cans asshole !!!!


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (Peter Stickney)
Date: 9/6/2004 11:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(ArtKramr) writes:
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (Peter Stickney)
Date: 9/5/2004 6:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(ArtKramr) writes:
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 2:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

And as far as I know, nobody was flying B26's during the Vietnam era.


Well, not Martin B-26s.


And the highest rate of killing its crews.One a day in Tampa Bay. The
widowmaker, The B-dash-Crash.The flying Prostitute, The Flying Coffin.
Got it
now wannabee?

Art, The Army Air Force Statistical Digest disagrees with you. While
the Martin B-26 had the highest accident rate of any _Medium_ Bomber
(Medium being the B-25, B-26, and the Lockheed B-34), it never
approached the accident rate of the A-20, which had roughly twice teh
number lost per 100,000 Flight Hours, and all of the various
Fighter/Pursuit types.

Those aren't subjective impressions - they're hard facts, backed up by
the cold, unfeeling numbers.


But the frigging A-20 was yanked out of service while we flew B-26 in
combat
to the bitter end. And of course you never had to fly the B-26 so what the
hell did you care?

The "frigging A-20" was in service throughout the war (From the very
beginning, actually, The same airplane, as the DB-7, was in service
with the French Armee de l'Air in 1940, and flew against the Germans)

They served until 1945, wherever teh AAF was - North Africa, the Med,
the ETO, a

They yanked almost all the A-20's out of the ETO and sent them down to the MTO,
a less demanding theatre of operations. I don't think I ever saw an A-20 over
Germany.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

A non-answer to my question. But that is to be expected.

Pete

Screw you.

Oh, I wish, Artie Baby!

I could do with being laid right about now!

raoul

"ArtKramr" wrote

No one was eating out of garbage cans asshole !!!!

Why do you think they started food stamps in 1939 moron?

How come there were no black crew members in your outfit?