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Non-precision approach without a published MAP?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 30th 06, 04:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Peter R.
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Posts: 1,045
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana (KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?


--
Peter
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  #2  
Old July 30th 06, 04:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Peter R.
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Posts: 1,045
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

"Peter R." wrote:

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?


Just after sending this up, I recalled a discussion in this group about a
year ago that talked about VOR approaches whereby the VOR is on or very
close to the field. I then pulled up a couple of other approaches to
nearby airports where this is the case and the VOR serves as the MAP.

My confusion was a result of expecting to see the point published on the
chart as MAP, but apparently these types of approaches imply the MAP is at
the VOR without needing to specifically label them as such.

I do not have the Jepp subscription to the chart linked in my previous
post, but I will pull up my Jepps to see how they chart the MAP on nearby
approaches similar to this one.


--
Peter
  #3  
Old July 30th 06, 04:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Carter[_1_]
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Posts: 403
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

The profile view on the approach plate illustrates that the MAP is at
the VOR/DME.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter R. [mailto Posted At: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:40
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Non-precision approach without a published MAP?
Subject: Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

"Peter R." wrote:

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach

without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my

experience
has provided to date?


Just after sending this up, I recalled a discussion in this group about
a
year ago that talked about VOR approaches whereby the VOR is on or very
close to the field. I then pulled up a couple of other approaches to
nearby airports where this is the case and the VOR serves as the MAP.

My confusion was a result of expecting to see the point published on the
chart as MAP, but apparently these types of approaches imply the MAP is
at
the VOR without needing to specifically label them as such.

I do not have the Jepp subscription to the chart linked in my previous
post, but I will pull up my Jepps to see how they chart the MAP on
nearby
approaches similar to this one.


--
Peter

  #4  
Old July 30th 06, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Andrew Sarangan[_1_]
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Posts: 187
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?


Peter R. wrote:
Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana (KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?


Unless I am missing something obvious, the VOR is the missed approach
point. There are hundreds (thousands?) of approaches like this where
the missed begins at the navaid.

  #5  
Old July 30th 06, 06:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Dave S
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Posts: 406
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Peter R. wrote:

Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana (KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?



Unless I am missing something obvious, the VOR is the missed approach
point. There are hundreds (thousands?) of approaches like this where
the missed begins at the navaid.


It also occurs BEYOND the departure end of the runway...

  #6  
Old July 30th 06, 06:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Andrew Sarangan[_1_]
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Posts: 187
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?


Dave S wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Peter R. wrote:

Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana (KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?



Unless I am missing something obvious, the VOR is the missed approach
point. There are hundreds (thousands?) of approaches like this where
the missed begins at the navaid.


It also occurs BEYOND the departure end of the runway...



So what? I would consider a MAP that begins before the runway to be an
exception rather than the rule. That's what VDP's are for. Here are a
few VOR approaches that begin beyond the departure end of the runway.

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/00958V24.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../00863VG33.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...s/00863VG6.PDF
http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../00583VG4L.PDF

  #7  
Old July 30th 06, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Peter R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,045
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Unless I am missing something obvious, the VOR is the missed approach
point. There are hundreds (thousands?) of approaches like this where
the missed begins at the navaid.


In retrospect my confusion may be due to the differences between Jepp
charts and the NACO charts. The Jepp charts include the M on these types
of approaches to indicate the MAP.

From the first days of instrument training I used Jepps over NACO charts
and had grown into thinking that this visual indicator was the method for
indicating the MAP on both types of charts.

The approach linked in my original post was the first VOR approach I flew
outside my Jepp subscription (the Northeast US).

--
Peter
  #8  
Old July 30th 06, 09:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Stefan Lörchner
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Posts: 8
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?


almost every VOR-A with the VOR at the airport.

Instrument flying Handbook 8-20:

In nonprecision approaches, a final descent is initiated at the
FAF, or after completing the procedure turn and established
inbound on the procedure course. The FAF is clearly
identified by use of the Maltese cross symbol in the profile
view. When the FAF is not indicated in the profile view,
the MAP is based on station passage when the facility is on
the airport or a specified distance (e.g., VOR/DME or GPS
procedures).

In nonprecision
procedures, the pilot determines the MAP by timing from
FAF when the approach aid is well away from the airport, by
a fix or NAVAID when the navigation facility is located on
the field, or by waypoints as defined by GPS or VOR/DME
RNAV.
  #9  
Old July 30th 06, 09:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,325
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Dave S wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Peter R. wrote:

Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana
(KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS
approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach
without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my
experience
has provided to date?



Unless I am missing something obvious, the VOR is the missed approach
point. There are hundreds (thousands?) of approaches like this where
the missed begins at the navaid.


It also occurs BEYOND the departure end of the runway...


I think you meant to say the MAP occurs beyong the approach end of the
runway.

VOR and NDBs that are located on the airport are "on airport" approach
facilities. The missed approach point is the facility even though it is
beyond the landing threshold. The only exception is where it is a
VOR/DME IAP, then a DME fix at the threshold will mark the MAP.
  #10  
Old July 30th 06, 09:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,325
Default Non-precision approach without a published MAP?

Peter R. wrote:

Last Friday I flew with another pilot to Starke County, Indiana (KOXI) to
pick up my stranded Bonanza.

The airport is only served by one instrument approach, a VOR/GPS approach,
linked he

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../06847VG18.PDF

Until this approach, I had not encountered a non-precision approach without
a published missed approach point. Is this more common than my experience
has provided to date?


The plan view makes the MAP quite clear.
 




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