Flarm and stealth

On Oct 30, 12:50*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I'm not convinced that using FLARM will increase leaching. *Many of the
posts have assumed that it will. *A pilot that plans to leach can do so
using his/her eyeballs anyway. *As it is now he/she (for example) can see 2
gaggles out in the distance. *They may or may not be able to tell remotely
which gaggle is climbing better due to how much they are climbing up and
away (as seen visually - without FLARM). *FLARM will probably make it easier
to determine which gaggle is in a better thermal. *But again, I have never
flown with FLARM...

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Oct 30, 11:07 am, RW wrote:

Gosh no. But re-reading your earlier post... are you seriously trying
to sell leeching technology as a safety enhancement? No thanks!

I'm with Bill Ruehle 100%.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

We have already info of no problem with leeching from 5 year old Flarm
experience in Europe.
But if somebody who is not serious about racing thinks this way,
let him buy it.
Lets keep this myth alive.
This way we have more Flarms.
RW

Pick one, you can't have 'em both:

A. * " We have already info of no problem with leeching from 5 year
old Flarm experience in Europe."

B. * "In Parowan in blue and over Nevada unlandable desert, Flarm
would improve safety" (by making it easier to leech)

-T8

Evan,
Open your mind.I take both.
Flarm climb rates are not reliable, so useless for leeching.
Pointing to active thermal area in rocky Nevada desert, might save
somebody's life.
Ryszard
ps.John, sorry for my one more (no Flarm expert) posting.
pps.Hank, 3 years ago I send a email to Flarm guys about US Flarm
sales.
Was told : never, because US has too many lawyers.(this email is
still hidden in my gmail)
Imagine yourself as instrumental to shut off ,maybe life saver
options
of Flarm in eyes of smart Jewish lawyer defending young Joe
wife rights.
Joe was local glider pilot in Utah.He had not much experience,
but being local , got reverse seeding preference.So he got
in the contest.
Day was blue and CD liked to send everybody over Nevada desert.
5 min before Joe died 2 of18m motorgliders equipped with same Flarm
like Joe's( but mandatory by rules comity blocked) flew by.It was
visible from GPS logs 8 miles
down the task they find thermal.Joe was thinking it is time crash
landing, those 2 had engine, so no hope for him.He didn't see them
thermaling.Lawyer could figure out : Joe could easy get to the hot
spot.
I know already this lawyer name if you want to try your argument
before it happens, he is a glider pilot.I don't know real Joe name
yet.
pps.Bill,I'm also100% for your idea of pilot decision to set the mode.

I´ve never flown in a serious competition with FLARM, but I have flown
near a competition site. Based on my own experience with competition
pilots blasting through thermals with circling gliders and also on
reports from Szeged I strongly hope stealth mode gets dropped
completely. This would at least give other pilots an early warning
that a cloud of gliders is approaching and allow them to avoid flying
close to a few "pilots" with more adrenaline than responsibility.

Michael

It seems that Flarm will give you the "ability to see climb rates of
gliders out in front" either through
* PDA software processing
* seeing a large gaggle which is a good indicator
* seeing relative height change between you and others while circling

I think this will increase gaggling since it will be even more
important to start last. Result - everyone starts late.

So, I think, Stealth mode will be a requirement in comps. If a pilot
switches to Open mode then there should be some kind of penalty.
Switching back and forth between Stealth (when things are peachy) and
Open (when low) should not be allowed.

Peter

If racing scares you, don’t race.

Bingo!

As the technology advances we go faster and faster, the point spreads
get smaller, and the truly talented pilots don't stand out any more.

Nowadays we need fourth generation electronics to protect us from the
hazards created by the third generation electronics.

Who needs it?

On Oct 31, 10:13*am, Pat Russell wrote:
If racing scares you, don’t race.

Bingo!

As the technology advances we go faster and faster, the point spreads
get smaller, and the truly talented pilots don't stand out any more.

Nowadays we need fourth generation electronics to protect us from the
hazards created by the third generation electronics.

Who needs it?

"As the technology advances we go faster and faster, the point spreads
get smaller, and the truly talented pilots don't stand out any more."
Not true, see WGC 18M results http://www.flatlandcup.hu/2010/compe...85_18m_tot.htm
90% of pilots didn't use stealth mode, see the spread , in some tasks
just 15% finished task, based on above statement all should finish.
We don't circle 50% of the time during task any more, in some tasks we
don't circle at all, so as tactical tool Powerflarm is useless as
safety tool is superior.
The only way to avoid gagle is to fly OLC

The only way to avoid gagle is to fly OLC

We need to lobby the OLC admin to get rid of the 15km change.

Brad

BB still has ears on and wants to hear facts from people who have
contest experience flying with Flarm.

I hope you guys don't mind too much of overseas experience.

Any device that allows you to “see” another competitor that
you could not otherwise acquire with your eyeball gives
a tactical advantage, period.

This is true. And the best part of it is that I can choose when I am
making myself available for leeching (in normal Flarm mode) and when I
am not (in stealth mode).

Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.naviter.com

On 30 okt., 16:14, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Oct 30, 7:46*am, wrote:



Gosh no. *But re-reading your earlier post... are you seriously trying
to sell leeching technology as a safety enhancement? *No thanks!

I'm with Bill Ruehle 100%.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

UH Agrees 100%

BB still has ears on and wants to hear facts from people who have
contest experience flying with Flarm. So far in this thread we have 3
posts from people who have done so, and 27 strongly held opinions (pro
and con) from US pilots who have never been in the air with a flarm
system.

As I count the three, one basically says it's not much use for
locating thermals (also my experience, but that based only on one
WGC); the second says it helps a lot, but after a few years of similar
grumbling about the end of the sport, european pilots seem to be
converging to a view that they like it, and it enhances the race
experience. The third says it's great for safety but is silent on the
competitive issue.

We (US) still don't have much information, on "does it work?", on "do
pilots, after experience, think this is the End Of Soaring or actually
enhance the contest experience?, on "what happens if you mandate
stealth mode and don't enforce it" (WGC), on "are you able to enforce
it without chaos?"

I do think we have to watch the tendency to dream in our winter
armchairs about how great/terrible the next technical innovation will
be and either demand (mandate)/ban it preemptively. (Remember GPS?
ELT?) *We in the US are a bit fortunate in this case that there is a
decade of experience we can mine rather than have to figure this out
completely on our own. If we will only be a little quiet and listen.

John Cochrane BB

Originally Posted by Tony[_5_]

On Oct 28, 4:29*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Oct 28, 2:06*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

To heck with stealth, what about ECM?

too close for missiles i'm switching to guns?

Yes I think.