Postponed 3 students due to TSA

Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in person from
the Clerk's office. Both of the guys tell me they are US Citizens, but there's
no time to obtain TSA required documents in time to start training with me next
week. Even though your FAA Pilot Certificate lists your Nationality, it is
not a valid form of ID according to the TSA "help" desk. TSA tells me I cannot
train them. I wonder if they are giving out consistent advice?

Scenario # 2: Third student is a local 13 year old youngster. Hopes to solo
on 14th birthday over the Christmas Holidays. Has no previous glider training
except great RC model flyer. Been reading books and watching soaring videos.
No Passport. Mom working on getting an original certified copy of his birth
certificate from out of state. TSA "help" desk has no idea what I'm talking
about. Advised me that no one can fly solo under age 16. Looks like TSA
doesn't understand gliders - or at least the advisor I talked with was not
aware.

I guess we will have to advise our students well in advance of coming to fly
with us to get their documents in order. The spontaneous days of the touring
airplane pilot who sees a gliderport and wants a spur-of-the-moment
introductory dual glider flight are gone, unless they are carrying a US
Passport. The kid that learned to be your line crew last weekend will not get
their first dual glider flight as a reward for their work. I wonder how CAP is
dealing with this?

Looks like every American at every age should obtain and carry a US Passport.
Makes life easier to carry your "papers". But then again, I'm not trained to
detect forged Passports.

Burt
Marfa, Texas

No doubt you've heard of civil disobedience.
A stupid rule promulgated by stupid people
should be ignored.

If we are not willing to do what we believe
is right, perhaps the terrorists have already
won the war.

Yes I know, you fear retribution. So did
the framers of the Constitution; they did what
they believed was right in spite of that fear.

Perhaps it is time that we (all of us) stand
against rules that are illogical, stupid, self-serving
and have no impact on terrorist activities
whatsoever.

Just a thought.

Allan

"Burt Compton" wrote in message
...
Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who
planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US
Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because
they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in person
from
the Clerk's office. Both of the guys tell me they are US Citizens, but
there's
no time to obtain TSA required documents in time to start training with me
next
week. Even though your FAA Pilot Certificate lists your Nationality, it
is
not a valid form of ID according to the TSA "help" desk. TSA tells me I
cannot
train them. I wonder if they are giving out consistent advice?

.....Snip...

"Burt Compton" wrote in message
...
Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who
planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US
Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because
they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in person
from
the Clerk's office. Both of the guys tell me they are US Citizens, but
there's
no time to obtain TSA required documents in time to start training with me
next
week. Even though your FAA Pilot Certificate lists your Nationality, it
is
not a valid form of ID according to the TSA "help" desk. TSA tells me I
cannot
train them. I wonder if they are giving out consistent advice?

Scenario # 2: Third student is a local 13 year old youngster. Hopes to
solo
on 14th birthday over the Christmas Holidays. Has no previous glider
training
except great RC model flyer. Been reading books and watching soaring
videos.
No Passport. Mom working on getting an original certified copy of his
birth
certificate from out of state. TSA "help" desk has no idea what I'm
talking
about. Advised me that no one can fly solo under age 16. Looks like TSA
doesn't understand gliders - or at least the advisor I talked with was not
aware.


I occurs to me that while general aviation is the first target of TSA "carry
your papers" edict, it won't be the last. While this is deplorable, and
represents harsh treatment for our visiting friends from abroad, there may
be some light at the end of the tunnel. If everyone in the US must prove
their citizenship to rent a car or buy an airline ticket, the impact on
soaring will diminish as the citizenry becomes accustomed to the
inconvenience. Sad thing to have to say.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels

"Burt Compton" wrote in message
...
Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who
planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US
Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because
they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in person
from
the Clerk's office. ...
Scenario # 2: Third student is a local 13 year old youngster. Hopes to
solo
on 14th birthday over the Christmas Holidays. Has no previous glider
training
except great RC model flyer. Been reading books and watching soaring
videos.
No Passport. Mom working on getting an original certified copy of his
birth
certificate from out of state.
...
I guess we will have to advise our students well in advance of coming to
fly
with us to get their documents in order. The spontaneous days of the
touring
airplane pilot who sees a gliderport and wants a spur-of-the-moment
introductory dual glider flight are gone, unless they are carrying a US
Passport.

You clearly have something wrong Burt. The TSA says that it is OK to
impose this rule without public input or advance notice because it will have
very little economic impact and is easily complied with.

Looks like every American at every age should obtain and carry a US
Passport.
Makes life easier to carry your "papers".

I can't think of a polite way of saying this, but it looks to me like
the TSA is completing Osama's work for him. In their zeal to put us all in
a bubble of safety, they are inadvertantly destroying the very liberties
they are charged to protect.

My wife and I saw this coming two years ago and applied for our
passports.

But then again, I'm not trained to detect forged Passports.

Exactly! ...or forged birth certificates. As happens so often with
government regulation, this rule is a problem to everyone except for those
who don't care about doing things legally.

Vaughn

ADP wrote:
No doubt you've heard of civil disobedience.
A stupid rule promulgated by stupid people
should be ignored.

If we are not willing to do what we believe
is right, perhaps the terrorists have already
won the war.

Yes I know, you fear retribution. So did
the framers of the Constitution; they did what
they believed was right in spite of that fear.

Perhaps it is time that we (all of us) stand
against rules that are illogical, stupid, self-serving
and have no impact on terrorist activities
whatsoever.

Just a thought.


Hey buddy. Americur is no place for this kind of seditious talk.

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Burt Compton" wrote in message
...
Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who
planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US
Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because
they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in
person
from
the Clerk's office. ...
Scenario # 2: Third student is a local 13 year old youngster. Hopes to
solo
on 14th birthday over the Christmas Holidays. Has no previous glider
training
except great RC model flyer. Been reading books and watching soaring
videos.
No Passport. Mom working on getting an original certified copy of his
birth
certificate from out of state.
...
I guess we will have to advise our students well in advance of coming to
fly
with us to get their documents in order. The spontaneous days of the
touring
airplane pilot who sees a gliderport and wants a spur-of-the-moment
introductory dual glider flight are gone, unless they are carrying a US
Passport.

You clearly have something wrong Burt. The TSA says that it is OK to
impose this rule without public input or advance notice because it will
have
very little economic impact and is easily complied with.

Looks like every American at every age should obtain and carry a US
Passport.
Makes life easier to carry your "papers".

I can't think of a polite way of saying this, but it looks to me like
the TSA is completing Osama's work for him. In their zeal to put us all
in
a bubble of safety, they are inadvertantly destroying the very liberties
they are charged to protect.

My wife and I saw this coming two years ago and applied for our
passports.

Sorry to say this guys, but.
If more than 20% of Americans carried passports there would be less of a
problem.
Why do you need a passport, surely drivers i.d. is sufficient?

"Roy Garden" wrote in message
...

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Burt Compton" wrote in message
...
Scenario # 1: I've got 2 guys (with FAA SEL Pilot Certificates) who
planned to
come to Marfa, Texas for glider training next week. Neither has a US
Passport
nor can they obtain a Certified Copy of their Birth Certificate because
they
are told you need to go to your home town or county to obtain it in
person
from
the Clerk's office. ...
Scenario # 2: Third student is a local 13 year old youngster. Hopes
to
solo
on 14th birthday over the Christmas Holidays. Has no previous glider
training
except great RC model flyer. Been reading books and watching soaring
videos.
No Passport. Mom working on getting an original certified copy of his
birth
certificate from out of state.
...
I guess we will have to advise our students well in advance of coming
to
fly
with us to get their documents in order. The spontaneous days of the
touring
airplane pilot who sees a gliderport and wants a spur-of-the-moment
introductory dual glider flight are gone, unless they are carrying a US
Passport.

You clearly have something wrong Burt. The TSA says that it is OK
to
impose this rule without public input or advance notice because it will
have
very little economic impact and is easily complied with.

Looks like every American at every age should obtain and carry a US
Passport.
Makes life easier to carry your "papers".

I can't think of a polite way of saying this, but it looks to me
like
the TSA is completing Osama's work for him. In their zeal to put us all

in
a bubble of safety, they are inadvertantly destroying the very liberties
they are charged to protect.

My wife and I saw this coming two years ago and applied for our
passports.

Sorry to say this guys, but.
If more than 20% of Americans carried passports there would be less of a
problem.
Why do you need a passport, surely drivers i.d. is sufficient?

drivers ID? surely you jest, some states have tried giving them to illegals

in many places you can't use a military photo ID to cash a check as they are
lost and stolen so frequently, drivers licenses are several orders of
magnitude worse

Frank Whiteley
Colorado

I have a curious question...If this whole "carry your papers" mess is based
on flight instructors verifying a "students" papers...and a "student" is
anyone a flight instructor takes for an instructional flight...wouldn't it
be a simple solution to just have rated pilots who are not instructors take
"friends" for short "rides"...?? If the pilot were to elect to show a friend
how he touches the controls for a moment every now and then, I don't see
where an infraction comes into play...I don't think there's any rules about
showing friends how we as rated pilots do things...If that "ride with a
friend" entices a person to choose to pursue an instructional flight, with a
certified instructor, that of course becomes a much more intentional act,
and a little planning and paperwork won't bog things down much at that
point, as they are merely compliance issues...

Perhaps I'm wrong, but methinks there is always more than one way to skin a
cat...



Steve
DG-400

http://travel.state.gov/passport/

Not saying I support this idea...I think I'll just
add it to my other ramp-check stuff.

http://www.usbirthcertificate.com/google/

Or plan B