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#1
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
I actually received this comment today from an FSS (US Flight service)
specialist when I called for an IFR flight briefing for a flight from Boston back to Syracuse, NY, early this afternoon. The Bridgeport FSS specialist was not joking either. He went on to say that too often pilots express concerns to him about seeing yellows and reds on the radar when he knows there is no convection in the area. Unbelievable. I made the mistake of responding by pointing out that it certainly is easy to make those comments while sitting safely in a chair in a building. I then continued by asking him where he was so that I could stop by his airport, pick him up, and take him for a ride through some level three returns. His reply was that he already has plenty of hours doing just that. -- Peter |
#2
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
He went on to say that too often pilots express concerns to him about seeing yellows and reds on the radar when he knows there is no convection in the area. This seems quite reasonable to me. A given level of return might be quite flyable in stratus, but quite something else in convective conditions. |
#3
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
Mike Granby wrote:
This seems quite reasonable to me. A given level of return might be quite flyable in stratus, but quite something else in convective conditions. Today's activity was the result of a low pressure system just over the border of the US into Canada that sent a pretty strong cold front marching across New England. The temperature differences on either side of the cold front were about 30 degrees F. Now I am not a meteorologist by trade or university, but I am pretty confident that the level three and higher returns showing up on radar ahead of this cold front today were not falling from a stratus layer. Presumably the FSS specialist was quite aware of the weather maker causing the rain and should have saved his smart-assed comments for another, more docile day. This day there were good reasons for a single engine aircraft to avoid the "non-green colors" on radar, given that the big jets all were making every effort to do so *and* that convective Sigments were released for portions of New England while we were en route. -- Peter |
#4
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:17:03 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote: I actually received this comment today from an FSS (US Flight service) specialist when I called for an IFR flight briefing for a flight from Boston back to Syracuse, NY, early this afternoon. The Bridgeport FSS specialist was not joking either. He went on to say that too often pilots express concerns to him about seeing yellows and reds on the radar when he knows there is no convection in the area. Unbelievable. I made the mistake of responding by pointing out that it certainly is easy to make those comments while sitting safely in a chair in a building. I then continued by asking him where he was so that I could stop by his airport, pick him up, and take him for a ride through some level three returns. His reply was that he already has plenty of hours doing just that. On a flight just a week or two before I was to take the instrument check ride my instructor had my file a plan from 3BS - MBS VOR - LAN (ILS) - AMN (NDB) - 3BS (VOR). The area between MBS and LAN was about 40 to 50 miles of solid yellow and red. I questioned the wisdom of flying into such things and my instructor said, "You did get a briefing didn't you?" to which I replied, "Yes". He asked, "Was there any convective activity in progress or forecast?"... No there wasn't. Are conditions favorable for convective activity? No they weren't. ... Any other questions? At this point he informed me he was just going to be a passenger even if he was officially PIC. So, we picked up our clearance and headed into the rain and man did it rain! Torrential rain, but it was one of the smoothest rides I've had. Coming back from Lansing (LAN) to Alma (AMN) was one of the most picturesque rides I've ever had. We were between layers. There were columns of cloud joining the two layers and individual clouds floating around in there. The light was almost a fluorescent green or at least had a strong green cast. It was beautiful. The approach into Alma was a left turn to the NDB which is 5 miles west of the field. Then the PT back to the NDB all the while just skimming the top of the layer while going through the occasional piece sticking up. The feeling of speed was tremendous. At the NDB we started the descent into torrential rain. We broke out about 50 feet above MDA in heavy rain with the runway directly ahead. We went missed and headed for home. Suddenly we were back in bright sunshine and MBS approach told us to expect the visual into Midland (3BS). Unfortunately of fortunately depending on your view all we could see in the Midland area was more clouds. So the reply was we'd like to do the VOR-A into 3BS if it was OK with them. They didn't know it was solid over there. We had vectors to intercept the approach inbound which made it an easy one, but again we were very close to minimums and a mile to the east of the airport it was below minimums which we reported to app. It was one whale of a nice ride, a good work out, and three different approaches right down to almost minimums. All this through what I had expected to be a really rough ride due to those red and yellow reflections which really are only showing precipitation. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#5
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
It isn't so much the level of the return, but the gradient
and attenuation. When Doppler radar is available areas of turbulence can be directly detected. But conventional radar must be used as a hint to what may be happening, based on local knowledge, terrain, prevailing weather and even time of day. Any FSS, any ground based reporter or forecaster may be as brave as they want, but to tell a pilot that they should not be concerned or "act cowardly" is just plain stupid. I would recommend that any IFR pilot get the books (and if possible) take Capt. David Gwinn's course on radar. And read Capt. Robert Buck's book, Weather Flying. And FSS persons should explain and teach, rather than dare and goad. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. "Roger" wrote in message ... | On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:17:03 -0400, "Peter R." | wrote: | | I actually received this comment today from an FSS (US Flight service) | specialist when I called for an IFR flight briefing for a flight from | Boston back to Syracuse, NY, early this afternoon. The Bridgeport FSS | specialist was not joking either. He went on to say that too often pilots | express concerns to him about seeing yellows and reds on the radar when he | knows there is no convection in the area. | | Unbelievable. I made the mistake of responding by pointing out that it | certainly is easy to make those comments while sitting safely in a chair in | a building. I then continued by asking him where he was so that I could | stop by his airport, pick him up, and take him for a ride through some | level three returns. His reply was that he already has plenty of hours | doing just that. | | On a flight just a week or two before I was to take the instrument | check ride my instructor had my file a plan from 3BS - MBS VOR - LAN | (ILS) - AMN (NDB) - 3BS (VOR). | | The area between MBS and LAN was about 40 to 50 miles of solid yellow | and red. I questioned the wisdom of flying into such things and my | instructor said, "You did get a briefing didn't you?" to which I | replied, "Yes". He asked, "Was there any convective activity in | progress or forecast?"... No there wasn't. Are conditions favorable | for convective activity? No they weren't. ... Any other questions? | At this point he informed me he was just going to be a passenger even | if he was officially PIC. | | So, we picked up our clearance and headed into the rain and man did it | rain! Torrential rain, but it was one of the smoothest rides I've | had. Coming back from Lansing (LAN) to Alma (AMN) was one of the most | picturesque rides I've ever had. We were between layers. There were | columns of cloud joining the two layers and individual clouds floating | around in there. The light was almost a fluorescent green or at least | had a strong green cast. It was beautiful. | | The approach into Alma was a left turn to the NDB which is 5 miles | west of the field. Then the PT back to the NDB all the while just | skimming the top of the layer while going through the occasional piece | sticking up. The feeling of speed was tremendous. At the NDB we | started the descent into torrential rain. We broke out about 50 feet | above MDA in heavy rain with the runway directly ahead. We went | missed and headed for home. | | Suddenly we were back in bright sunshine and MBS approach told us to | expect the visual into Midland (3BS). Unfortunately of fortunately | depending on your view all we could see in the Midland area was more | clouds. So the reply was we'd like to do the VOR-A into 3BS if it was | OK with them. They didn't know it was solid over there. | | We had vectors to intercept the approach inbound which made it an easy | one, but again we were very close to minimums and a mile to the east | of the airport it was below minimums which we reported to app. | | It was one whale of a nice ride, a good work out, and three different | approaches right down to almost minimums. All this through what I had | expected to be a really rough ride due to those red and yellow | reflections which really are only showing precipitation. | | Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) | (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) | www.rogerhalstead.com |
#6
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
On Sun, 21 May 2006 22:33:08 -0400, Roger wrote:
snip It was one whale of a nice ride, a good work out, and three different approaches right down to almost minimums. All this through what I had expected to be a really rough ride due to those red and yellow reflections which really are only showing precipitation. Great post Roger, While I agree with Peter on convective yellows and reds, if it's stratiform clouds and no convective activity expected or conducive of convective activity, I personally don't mind the yellows returns. I like you experienced one of the smoothest rides in rainy weather in stratiform clouds. I have never KNOWINGLY flown through red precip returns, that's for sure, but that's not to say I haven't gone through an embedded red return. Talk about an impromptu shower, when the rain comes through the air vents :-) Allen |
#7
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
Jim Macklin wrote:
And FSS persons should explain and teach, rather than dare and goad. They are human beings, and their jobs are being outsourced. |
#8
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
Sam Spade wrote: Jim Macklin wrote: And FSS persons should explain and teach, rather than dare and goad. They are human beings, and their jobs are being outsourced. The jobs haven't been outsourced, the employer has. |
#9
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
Sam Spade wrote:
They are human beings, and their jobs are being outsourced. Spare me the "it's not their fault" argument. A true professional is able to keep his/her personal issues from interfering with the job, especially if this job has some influence on the safety of others. -- Peter |
#10
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"Are you worried about all those non-green colors on the radar?"
Newps wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: Jim Macklin wrote: And FSS persons should explain and teach, rather than dare and goad. They are human beings, and their jobs are being outsourced. The jobs haven't been outsourced, the employer has. Aa well as their FAA retirement. It is now vaporware. The ones who could find other jobs in the FAA have jumped ship from the new employer. The new employer is a preditor. |
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