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#1
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Why GA is Dying
After I landed from this morning's flight, a young guy (maybe 18 or 20 years
old) came over, complimented my airplane and asked if he could take some pictures. Of course, I was flattered and told him to shoot away. He hung around and we talked for 20 minutes or more as I wiped down the airplane for bugs, cleaned the canopy, etc.. Turns out, he has his "ultralight pilot's license? (???) and is about ready to start training for his PPSEL. Nice guy. Once I took care of a few things (and the airplane cooled), I taxied over to the wash stand and gave the RV a nice bath. - Can't go to Oshkosh with a dirty airplane. The young guy from before happed to be over by the wash stand with his camera, so we had another conversation as I was washing the airplane. In the middle of this, one of the employees from the FBO came over and asked the guy to go to the FBO and present his photo ID so the FBO would know who is making pictures at the airport. I steped in and asked where this requirement came from, and the FBO guy hemmed and hawed, saying that he thought it came from the airport authority. I asked if he could show me the requirement in writing. He hemmed and hawed some more, and never could answer the question. The FBO guy said that people didn't like having others make pictures of their airplanes. (Huh??) Like, who? I asked. Again, no good response. I'll verify this with the FBO owner and the airport authority on Monday, but no way, no how, is there a "must present an ID before taking pictures" policy at my home field. Someone at the FBO didn't have anything to do and decided to play "big man on campus" for fun. So, what does this have to do with the slow death of GA? It has to do with the attitudes around some airports. Today's 20 year old picture taker will be tomorrow's private pilot who'll be paying for flying lessons, gasoline, etc. and will eventually rent aircraft or own his own airplane. That is, if he wasn't put-off by the FBO. In which case, that's one more person who had his dream squashed, and will never become a pilot. Given the sharp decline in the number of pilots in the US, it amazes me how unfriendly FBO's can be. You'd think they would be out begging for business. Naah. It must be far more productive to run off prospective customers. No wonder there are so few new pilots. FYI, my home field is just outside of Atlanta. Go one airport farther away from Atlanta in any direction and you'll get great service by very friendly people. Go to any of the airports closer to the city and they will practically beg you to leave unless your aircraft is turbine powered. I'd bet those unfriendly airports turn a lot of people from potential pilots to boat or Harley owners. By the way, the 20 year old guy did go inside the FBO and present his ID. His choice, and a nice gesture. I thought a different gesture might have been appropriate. KB |
#2
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Why GA is Dying
Nobody is forcing you to use that FBO. Frankly, I like the idea of
them keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible for. If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that. Kyle Boatright wrote: After I landed from this morning's flight, a young guy (maybe 18 or 20 years old) came over, complimented my airplane and asked if he could take some pictures. Of course, I was flattered and told him to shoot away. He hung around and we talked for 20 minutes or more as I wiped down the airplane for bugs, cleaned the canopy, etc.. Turns out, he has his "ultralight pilot's license? (???) and is about ready to start training for his PPSEL. Nice guy. Once I took care of a few things (and the airplane cooled), I taxied over to the wash stand and gave the RV a nice bath. - Can't go to Oshkosh with a dirty airplane. The young guy from before happed to be over by the wash stand with his camera, so we had another conversation as I was washing the airplane. In the middle of this, one of the employees from the FBO came over and asked the guy to go to the FBO and present his photo ID so the FBO would know who is making pictures at the airport. I steped in and asked where this requirement came from, and the FBO guy hemmed and hawed, saying that he thought it came from the airport authority. I asked if he could show me the requirement in writing. He hemmed and hawed some more, and never could answer the question. The FBO guy said that people didn't like having others make pictures of their airplanes. (Huh??) Like, who? I asked. Again, no good response. I'll verify this with the FBO owner and the airport authority on Monday, but no way, no how, is there a "must present an ID before taking pictures" policy at my home field. Someone at the FBO didn't have anything to do and decided to play "big man on campus" for fun. So, what does this have to do with the slow death of GA? It has to do with the attitudes around some airports. Today's 20 year old picture taker will be tomorrow's private pilot who'll be paying for flying lessons, gasoline, etc. and will eventually rent aircraft or own his own airplane. That is, if he wasn't put-off by the FBO. In which case, that's one more person who had his dream squashed, and will never become a pilot. Given the sharp decline in the number of pilots in the US, it amazes me how unfriendly FBO's can be. You'd think they would be out begging for business. Naah. It must be far more productive to run off prospective customers. No wonder there are so few new pilots. FYI, my home field is just outside of Atlanta. Go one airport farther away from Atlanta in any direction and you'll get great service by very friendly people. Go to any of the airports closer to the city and they will practically beg you to leave unless your aircraft is turbine powered. I'd bet those unfriendly airports turn a lot of people from potential pilots to boat or Harley owners. By the way, the 20 year old guy did go inside the FBO and present his ID. His choice, and a nice gesture. I thought a different gesture might have been appropriate. KB |
#3
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Why GA is Dying
"Stubby" wrote in message ... Frankly, I like the idea of them keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible for. If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that. Yup, our FBO requires ID for those that enter the ramp thru the FBO. I think it's a small inconvenience for the step up in security. If people know they can walk in off the street without question, that's where some trouble could start. |
#4
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Why GA is Dying
This type of post is of course an opinion post and as such should be
respected in that context. My personal opinion on this is that you are either going to have airport security or you're not..period! You can parse the "my rights are being violated" thing to death, and you can complain about the inconvenience till you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is simply that you can't have it both ways. 9-11 happened. It just "ain't" the same world any more. You can bash politicians. You can bash political parties. You can holler about the way its all being done. But the bottom line remains the same. You either have security or you don't. Again, personally, if its my airplane that's sitting out there on the line, or inside that hangar, or even your airplane out there, I damn well want the FBO involved to take some interest in who's out there taking pictures of everything. Just my read on it. Don't mean it to be argumentative :-)) Dudley Henriques "Kyle Boatright" wrote in message . .. After I landed from this morning's flight, a young guy (maybe 18 or 20 years old) came over, complimented my airplane and asked if he could take some pictures. Of course, I was flattered and told him to shoot away. He hung around and we talked for 20 minutes or more as I wiped down the airplane for bugs, cleaned the canopy, etc.. Turns out, he has his "ultralight pilot's license? (???) and is about ready to start training for his PPSEL. Nice guy. Once I took care of a few things (and the airplane cooled), I taxied over to the wash stand and gave the RV a nice bath. - Can't go to Oshkosh with a dirty airplane. The young guy from before happed to be over by the wash stand with his camera, so we had another conversation as I was washing the airplane. In the middle of this, one of the employees from the FBO came over and asked the guy to go to the FBO and present his photo ID so the FBO would know who is making pictures at the airport. I steped in and asked where this requirement came from, and the FBO guy hemmed and hawed, saying that he thought it came from the airport authority. I asked if he could show me the requirement in writing. He hemmed and hawed some more, and never could answer the question. The FBO guy said that people didn't like having others make pictures of their airplanes. (Huh??) Like, who? I asked. Again, no good response. I'll verify this with the FBO owner and the airport authority on Monday, but no way, no how, is there a "must present an ID before taking pictures" policy at my home field. Someone at the FBO didn't have anything to do and decided to play "big man on campus" for fun. So, what does this have to do with the slow death of GA? It has to do with the attitudes around some airports. Today's 20 year old picture taker will be tomorrow's private pilot who'll be paying for flying lessons, gasoline, etc. and will eventually rent aircraft or own his own airplane. That is, if he wasn't put-off by the FBO. In which case, that's one more person who had his dream squashed, and will never become a pilot. Given the sharp decline in the number of pilots in the US, it amazes me how unfriendly FBO's can be. You'd think they would be out begging for business. Naah. It must be far more productive to run off prospective customers. No wonder there are so few new pilots. FYI, my home field is just outside of Atlanta. Go one airport farther away from Atlanta in any direction and you'll get great service by very friendly people. Go to any of the airports closer to the city and they will practically beg you to leave unless your aircraft is turbine powered. I'd bet those unfriendly airports turn a lot of people from potential pilots to boat or Harley owners. By the way, the 20 year old guy did go inside the FBO and present his ID. His choice, and a nice gesture. I thought a different gesture might have been appropriate. KB |
#5
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Why GA is Dying
Kyle Boatright wrote:
snip September 11 or not, customer service at flight schools and FBOs has gone down the tubes. I can't tell you the number of times I've been blown off when I go in to rent an airplane. They have no way of knowing WHO I am, and when I walk in and am just handed a rental sheet and brushed off, they might have just lost a potential student. Then there was the guy at one FBO who wouldn't let me back on the ramp to my plane because I didn't have ID. ID was in the purse, in the backseat on the airplane. I'm not sure if they wanted the airplane sitting permanently on their ramp or not. Anyway, I'm not sure anyone even cares about the survival of general aviation. I just hope the airlines survive, or I'm out of a job. Ick. |
#6
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Why GA is Dying
A slightly different context and it's just good airport security.... a
local news outlet decides that they need an airport security story and sends a reporter out to the local strip to investigate. He walks on the ramp and starts taking photos and asking questions. This isn't hypothetical because it happened at my home 'port. However, before the guy got far, he was challenged by 2 different resident/pilots. He actually never got a chance to investigate because he was interrogated first, "so, can anyone just drive up and walk on? I don't see a fence" says the reporter. "Obviously not, we keep an eye on things (even though this is just a private grass strip), so what exactly are you looking for" But I do know how you feel. I never like to be stopped or questioned but you have to pick your battles and choose your spots while maintaining some perspective. I don't think this has anything to do with GA's problems. I'm not even sure we have problems; this is the best place on the planet to fly. We may have some challenges and perhaps this incident addresses a few of them. Kyle Boatright wrote: After I landed from this morning's flight, a young guy (maybe 18 or 20 years old) came over, complimented my airplane and asked if he could take some pictures. Of course, I was flattered and told him to shoot away. He hung around and we talked for 20 minutes or more as I wiped down the airplane for bugs, cleaned the canopy, etc.. Turns out, he has his "ultralight pilot's license? (???) and is about ready to start training for his PPSEL. Nice guy. Once I took care of a few things (and the airplane cooled), I taxied over to the wash stand and gave the RV a nice bath. - Can't go to Oshkosh with a dirty airplane. The young guy from before happed to be over by the wash stand with his camera, so we had another conversation as I was washing the airplane. In the middle of this, one of the employees from the FBO came over and asked the guy to go to the FBO and present his photo ID so the FBO would know who is making pictures at the airport. I steped in and asked where this requirement came from, and the FBO guy hemmed and hawed, saying that he thought it came from the airport authority. I asked if he could show me the requirement in writing. He hemmed and hawed some more, and never could answer the question. The FBO guy said that people didn't like having others make pictures of their airplanes. (Huh??) Like, who? I asked. Again, no good response. I'll verify this with the FBO owner and the airport authority on Monday, but no way, no how, is there a "must present an ID before taking pictures" policy at my home field. Someone at the FBO didn't have anything to do and decided to play "big man on campus" for fun. So, what does this have to do with the slow death of GA? It has to do with the attitudes around some airports. Today's 20 year old picture taker will be tomorrow's private pilot who'll be paying for flying lessons, gasoline, etc. and will eventually rent aircraft or own his own airplane. That is, if he wasn't put-off by the FBO. In which case, that's one more person who had his dream squashed, and will never become a pilot. Given the sharp decline in the number of pilots in the US, it amazes me how unfriendly FBO's can be. You'd think they would be out begging for business. Naah. It must be far more productive to run off prospective customers. No wonder there are so few new pilots. FYI, my home field is just outside of Atlanta. Go one airport farther away from Atlanta in any direction and you'll get great service by very friendly people. Go to any of the airports closer to the city and they will practically beg you to leave unless your aircraft is turbine powered. I'd bet those unfriendly airports turn a lot of people from potential pilots to boat or Harley owners. By the way, the 20 year old guy did go inside the FBO and present his ID. His choice, and a nice gesture. I thought a different gesture might have been appropriate. KB |
#7
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Why GA is Dying
"Stubby" wrote in message ... Nobody is forcing you to use that FBO. Frankly, I like the idea of them keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible for. If I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that. They are not keeping tabs on people hanging around the airport. There are 2 gates to the ramp and both are wide open all day. The gates are not monitored. Automobiles are allowed on the ramp. Bikes are allowed on the ramp. People are allowed on the ramp. No ID, no anything other than an active GA community to keep an eye on things during the day. At night, one gate is open and there is a security person around. I'm fine with that. I don't need/want big brother at the airport. I don't want to have to sign in or card in or have to meet guests at a security gate. That kind of security just isn't necessary at a GA field. The issue today was that the kid was taking pictures instead of just pointing and talking. Why you'd need to have an ID to take pictures (as opposed to walking the ramp or driving on the ramp) is unknowable. And, why someone with the FBO would fabricate a rule about having a photo ID to take pictures is bizzarre. KB |
#8
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Why GA is Dying
Years ago I was talking with Bill Sweet [Air Show America]
and he told me a story about something that happened to him. He was flying to an air show and stopped for the night and put his plane in a hanger and the operator, a friend of his let him stay over-night in the hanger with his airplane. During the night he said he heard a DC3 taxiing on the airport and looked to see what was going on. He then went back to sleep. The next morning there were more than a dozen airplanes sitting on the ramp, firewall forward missing and the avionics were all taken. Later the DC3 was caught and they had rigged a canvas and chain hoist on a rail out the door. They'd taxi near a Bonanza or C210 and if the couldn't steal the airplane, they'd use power saws or cutting torches to remove the parts they wanted. Drug smugglers, plain thieves, and terrorists all want your airplane. But we need to still be able to have airport kids, lookers, and future students feel welcome.The major airports have bigger budgets and more threats. Should we all carry a dozen official government ID cards? I hope not. But a digital camera [or Polaroid] can take a picture of the people who are allowed on the ramp. It is just security, everybody on the ramp needs to be escorted or instructed in safety around airplanes, prop/jet blast, danger zones for props and rotors, nothing will get your airport closed faster than a headline, Toddler Killed by Private Plane's Propeller. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P "Kyle Boatright" wrote in message . .. | | "Stubby" wrote in message | ... | Nobody is forcing you to use that FBO. Frankly, I like the idea of them | keeping tabs on people hanging around planes they are responsible for. If | I owned a plane, I might seek out a place like that. | | | They are not keeping tabs on people hanging around the airport. There are 2 | gates to the ramp and both are wide open all day. The gates are not | monitored. Automobiles are allowed on the ramp. Bikes are allowed on the | ramp. People are allowed on the ramp. No ID, no anything other than an | active GA community to keep an eye on things during the day. At night, one | gate is open and there is a security person around. | | I'm fine with that. I don't need/want big brother at the airport. I don't | want to have to sign in or card in or have to meet guests at a security | gate. That kind of security just isn't necessary at a GA field. | | The issue today was that the kid was taking pictures instead of just | pointing and talking. Why you'd need to have an ID to take pictures (as | opposed to walking the ramp or driving on the ramp) is unknowable. And, why | someone with the FBO would fabricate a rule about having a photo ID to take | pictures is bizzarre. | | KB | | | | | |
#9
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Why GA is Dying
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message k.net... This type of post is of course an opinion post and as such should be respected in that context. My personal opinion on this is that you are either going to have airport security or you're not..period! Bingo. Bothering somone taking pictures doesn't make sense when the field has minimal, if any security. E.G. my home field. They don't ID pilots or passengers - even transients. Presumably folks in an airplane are bigger threats than people taking pictures, so why does the buck stop with a kid taking pictures? What I see with most not all of the "security" procedures we face today is that they inconvenience the innocent folks, but would have no impact on an actual threat. A great example is the TFR around a sporting event. Anything with wings could penetrate the TFR. Unless it is the Superbowl or World Series, there won't be anything in place to stop even a C-150 if somebody wanted to use one to create mayhem. The TFR is eyewash. Same thing with getting the ID of a kid taking pictures. It doesn't stop someone from taking pictures. Nor would it stop him if he was up to no-good. That said, the point I was trying to make is that the FBO employee (or his boss) pulled this "rule" out of his you-know-what. An excellent example of how to drive off a prospective client. The kind of client who is sorely needed by GA if it is going to survive another 50 years. KB |
#10
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Why GA is Dying
Dudley
The only true security would be to check ids and run it through an FBI computer for each client who gets on the ramp, including landing aircraft, which means all pilots and passengers must obtain this permission ahead of time. As far as I know, there is no such airport. A terrorist can take off from his private airstrip and land at JFK, OHare etc.. Airport security is all for show. It targets the legitimate pilot and his family. At our home airport after 9/11 they installed a perimeter fence at the cost of several millions. All it did was increase the deer population inside the fence and screw up the localizer signal which increased the approach minimums. Even an overweight American can jump across the fence, let alone a lean and mean middleeastern terrorist. Now it would be different if the person was loading suspicious looking objects into a suspicous looking aircraft. But a guy taking pictures of an airplane? Come on. I totally agree with the OP. Many eons ago I used to hang out at the airport taking pictures of airplanes. Even the big jets landing at big airports. If I had been chased away I very well might have been turned off from this whole aviation thing. Dudley Henriques wrote: This type of post is of course an opinion post and as such should be respected in that context. My personal opinion on this is that you are either going to have airport security or you're not..period! You can parse the "my rights are being violated" thing to death, and you can complain about the inconvenience till you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is simply that you can't have it both ways. 9-11 happened. It just "ain't" the same world any more. You can bash politicians. You can bash political parties. You can holler about the way its all being done. But the bottom line remains the same. You either have security or you don't. Again, personally, if its my airplane that's sitting out there on the line, or inside that hangar, or even your airplane out there, I damn well want the FBO involved to take some interest in who's out there taking pictures of everything. Just my read on it. Don't mean it to be argumentative :-)) Dudley Henriques |
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