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Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological achievements)
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:41:28 GMT, Charles Gray wrote:
Um, Hiroshima was HQ for several major Japanese Army and Navy units. And the US' Central Command, in charge of the mideast battles, is right next to downtown Tampa. Be careful of potential parallels here. Hmmm, I'm going there tomorrow. |
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:15:09 GMT, Dick Locke
wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:41:28 GMT, Charles Gray wrote: Um, Hiroshima was HQ for several major Japanese Army and Navy units. And the US' Central Command, in charge of the mideast battles, is right next to downtown Tampa. Be careful of potential parallels here. Hmmm, I'm going there tomorrow. I would consider Tampa a legitimate target for that reason. Just as I would consider San Diego a legitimate target, as its co-located with the biggest naval base onthe West Coast. |
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:19:37 GMT, Charles Gray wrote:
I would consider Tampa a legitimate target for that reason. Great. Standard landing instructions for planes coming from the northwest to TPA and landing to the north bring the plane down to a few thousand feet and then say "turn before McDill and intercept the localizer." Awfully late to react if the plane doesn't turn. |
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From: (cave fish)
Charles Gray wrote in message ... On 21 Dec 2003 22:22:27 -0800, (cave fish) wrote: However, in a case of open war between nations, while it may be justified to bomb key industrial areas supplying the war effort, do tell me how a newborn baby in a Hiroshima is guilty of anything? Or, kindergarten students? Or, members of the opposition? Or, those in jail for standing up to Japanese militarism? Or, old folks living out their last days? Um, Hiroshima was HQ for several major Japanese Army and Navy units. It was also a location of numerous factories and transport facilities, which in the normal order of things woudl have been leveled by the same sort of raid you saw on Tokyo. Also, you might look at Stalingrad to see the result of a full scale ground battle-- or the starvation that comes attendent a longer blockade. If Hiroshima had factories or military units,then you bomb those targets. You don't indiscrimately destroy hospitals and kindergartens and homes. Granted, even in conventional bombing raids, some bombs go astray, but to willfully destroy an entire civilian population is insane. OK, try this: look at pictures of the aftermath conventional bombing raids. They are all over the www. Look at the target and count the craters there. Now look how far away bombs hit. That "few" bombs turns out to be the majority, doesn't it? You talk like the ONLY reason to bomb Nagasaki and Hiroshima with atomic bombs was to slaughter civilians. If conventional bomb raids were used they thousands of civilians would have been killed anyway. The raids would probably not strike 100% of the targets the first time so they's have to go back to finish the job. More civilians would have died on each subsequent raid. Neither you now I know if any civilian lives would have been saved by not using atom bombs but we can assume there would be U.S. casualties. Your repeated insistance that the only reason for the atomic bombings was to kill civilians simply shows your bias. Just because a city has legitimate targets doesn't make the entire city a legitimate target. If the city YOU live in has industrial centers, then they are legitimate targets to the enemy. However, the schools, hospitals, suburban homes, nursing homes, etc are NOT legitimate targets. Even when only legitimate targets are targeted, many civilians end up as casualties. That's bad enough but when you knowingly target an entire civilian population, that's insanity. No one targeted hospitals and schools as you suggest except the Japanese in this case. Please think about this instead of being so stubborn. If there were no civilians in either city they still would have been bombed. I say again: civilians, other than those in tha factories etc, were NOT the prime targets as you suggest. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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(was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological
achievements) From: Date: 12/22/2003 5:48 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Linda Terrell" wrote in message l3.net... The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate nature of the destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped on a Japanese military target it might have been justified. But, to kill like that in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage overkill. Hiroshima was a military target -- it was a port wity with several railroad lines running in and out of it. That means supplies going to the Army. So does that make entire cities like San Diego "military targets" as well? If al-Qaeda or North Korea nuked Arlington or DC, would you chalk it up as a respectable act of war? If there are valid targets distributed throughout San Diego and the enemy has precision guided munitions then the entire city is not a target. But that is not the point. No one had any PGMs in WW2. In Hiroshima the targets were distributed througout the city. With no PGMs how would YOU target a rail head in a heavily populated and defended area in 1945? Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organitation not recognized as a state. Therefore an act such as you describe would be a criminal act. We are not at war with North Korea. If we were and it went nuclear they would be militarily correct to strike D.C. as it contains many legitimate targets. I ask again, how would YOU have taken out the legitimate targets in Nagasaki and Hiroshima using only weapons available in WW2? How many civilian casualties would there be with your method? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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On 22 Dec 2003 21:34:17 GMT, (B2431) wrote:
From: Col. RJ Hell they sent their stupid balloon bombs for the sole purpose of killing US civilians, thank god only one made it that I know of and it killed a school teacher in Oregon with several of her students. That was the only one that killed. They were on an outting and found the bomb. It didn't land on them. Several baloon bombs caused forrest fires. There were units of black fire fighters you controlled those fires secrretly so as to not spread panic. Since the end of the war the secrecy has been lifted. I have to point out that Japan invaded and occupied two of the Aleutian Islands and neither invasion was without fatalities among the people living there, all civilians. Ditto the Channel Islands, by the way. I guess they don't count, either, since they're not part of the UK. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
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In article ,
Dick Locke wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:41:28 GMT, Charles Gray wrote: Um, Hiroshima was HQ for several major Japanese Army and Navy units. And the US' Central Command, in charge of the mideast battles, is right next to downtown Tampa. Be careful of potential parallels here. Hmmm, I'm going there tomorrow. Then you're not suprised to note that it would be a major target in case of war. |
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