***** Space Pictures's Argument Resolved At Last! *****

Remember folks, you worry about missing other posts 'cause J3's
postings "knock many posts off my ISP's jake-leg news server."

1. Kill-file (plonk, exclude, deny) J3. No more J3 stuff.

2. Start (re)posting the hell out of your own pictures.

3. Your news server's three-day rentention value will
start knocking J3's off as well.

4. People like me, whose servers have six-month retention,
will get to add to their collections, the photos they might
have missed only through oversight.

5. Everyone is happy, excluding the resident ABPA genius.
Yes Alan, I'm talking about you. He will not be able to
confuse, prevaricate, obfuscate the issues of how EASY it
is to move out of the 80's and into the new millinuem
regarding time/effort-saving software usage.

6. I'm back to lurk mode...
unless Alan's hubris needs s'more upbraiding.


BeetleJuice, BeetleJuice, BeetleJuice!

It's more like BITCH! BITCH! BITCH!

You guys are falling all over yourselves when anything beyond a
JPG file is posted.

It's not J3's fault that some posts are seen right away and others
take a while or fall into a black hole. The same problem happens on
many servers.

For the record, I posted 30 files about a month back and different
servers recieved a different variety of the 30. Eventually all 30
posted and in one case it took a week for everything to show.

If anyone has a ham radio license and operates packet or more
advanced systems, they undertsand how a bbs system operates which
is not far removed from the systems on the Internet.

The same senerio is played on the Internet. If timing is off or
there is a lot of traffic, traffic has a hell of a time getting
heard. After so many retries the all mighty black hole comes into
play.

1. Kill-file (plonk, exclude, deny) J3. No more J3 stuff.

If it makes you feel better to NOT see what is offered thats cool.
It's like walking into a restaurant and looking at only half the
menu. Makes no sense to me but I suppose some people prefer a state
of denial.

2. Start (re)posting the hell out of your own pictures.

Oh ya, that will do the trick! That's like saying make more noise
and everything will sound better. NOT! Flooding the system with
pictures we have already seen and commented because of J3's posting
of RAR files is immature, idiotic, will not persuade J3 to stop
posting his RAR files. It will only continue to further clog up an
over-worked system.

3. Your news server's three-day rentention value will
start knocking J3's off as well.

Did you ever think it's a systems's lack of retention coupled with
an inability to "hear" what the news system is passing might be a
large part of the problem. Paying for a service does not guarantee
the service is working right. If I get 100 new posts a day and you
only see five, don't you think you need to discuss the issue with
your News Service Provider?

I know . . . the witch is guilty, right? Burn them all at the stake!

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

(snip)

Clem, you're a little late to the dance, and you're not
hearing the music correctly... Oy Vey.

Lee wrote in
.89:

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

(snip)

Clem, you're a little late to the dance, and you're not
hearing the music correctly... Oy Vey.




I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

As far as not seeing all the files post to a server or a
file falling into oblivion, learn how a news server system
works and you'll learn why the problems happen.

The way some out here talk, you would think that gif's/jpg's
get through 100% of the time and all other formats don't.
That's simply not true.

First and foremost, understand what a binary file is.

Binary files can contain images, sounds, compressed versions
of other files, etc. in short, any type of file content whatsoever.

J3 has every right to post any type of picture file he wants.

When you have a group named alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
you provide an open door for any format to be posted.

If you want a limited type of format, then start a group called
alt.snaphotpictures.aviation. or alt.pictures.aviation. I can't
find either one in my lists.

This is not the good old boys club or a membership only group.
It's an open public system and you have to expect and allow for
posts other than a simple picture file.

We've come a long way since z-modem 2400 baud connects and it's
about time the whiners accept that fact or they should just place
their 8088 machines in the closet.

It's whitchcraft I tell ya!

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

Lee wrote in
.89:

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

(snip)

Clem, you're a little late to the dance, and you're not
hearing the music correctly... Oy Vey.




I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

As far as not seeing all the files post to a server or a
file falling into oblivion, learn how a news server system
works and you'll learn why the problems happen.

The way some out here talk, you would think that gif's/jpg's
get through 100% of the time and all other formats don't.
That's simply not true.

First and foremost, understand what a binary file is.

Binary files can contain images, sounds, compressed versions
of other files, etc. in short, any type of file content whatsoever.

J3 has every right to post any type of picture file he wants.

When you have a group named alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
you provide an open door for any format to be posted.

If you want a limited type of format, then start a group called
alt.snaphotpictures.aviation. or alt.pictures.aviation. I can't
find either one in my lists.

This is not the good old boys club or a membership only group.
It's an open public system and you have to expect and allow for
posts other than a simple picture file.

We've come a long way since z-modem 2400 baud connects and it's
about time the whiners accept that fact or they should just place
their 8088 machines in the closet.

It's whitchcraft I tell ya!

Clem,
Ithink you did not understand the problem.
Par and rar are useful to post large files; videos for example.
They allow to break a large file into small files and to reconstruct it
safely.
But they are useless to post jpeg.It a waste of time for the uploader
and for the downloader.
It is that simple

"Clem" wrote in message
. 97.136...

I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

The 'crying bunch of idiots' you are referring to have been here for a very
long time, posting on a regular basis. Some as long as a decade or even
longer. You, however, I do not remember seeing here before. We've discussed
the pros and cons of other software in the past, and the majority agreed it
would be easier for all, especially people that are new to Usenet, to use
standaard file formats (i.e. JPG), as opposed to the non standard yEnc.

As far as not seeing all the files post to a server or a
file falling into oblivion, learn how a news server system
works and you'll learn why the problems happen.

I *know* why the problems happen. I also know that yEnc is not the answer.
In fact, it will cause more problems in the longer run, because it doesn't
reduce data, it only leads to more data. There are two reasons for the
problems:
1. Usenet was never intended, nor designed for the posting of binaries.
2. The amount of data on usenet (especially in the warez-groups) is growing
and growing. The providers simply cannot keep up adding new disk arrays.

The way some out here talk, you would think that gif's/jpg's
get through 100% of the time and all other formats don't.
That's simply not true.

Agreed. But the same goes for yEnc'd binaries.

First and foremost, understand what a binary file is.

Binary files can contain images, sounds, compressed versions
of other files, etc. in short, any type of file content whatsoever.

So? You still ignore the fact that Usenet was never intended for binaries.
eYenc'ed or not.

J3 has every right to post any type of picture file he wants.

And the "cryers" have every right to complain about the bandwidth he is
selfishly claiming to be 'his', even wen a fairly large amout of people ask
him not to.

When you have a group named alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
you provide an open door for any format to be posted.

When you ask a group if there are any objections, there is a simple rule
called 'netiquette' to keep you from flooding a group. Not just this one,
but ANY group. That same 'netiquette' tells you to follow a group for some
time before you start posting. That way you learn who's who, what to do, and
what not to do. Flaming and ranting are amongst the things you should not.

If you want a limited type of format, then start a group called
alt.snaphotpictures.aviation. or alt.pictures.aviation. I can't
find either one in my lists.

As I said: had you followed netiquette, you would have known, or at least
could have known, the sentiments on yEnd and flooding. There is a history to
this group, and an active group of users that go with that history. If you
insist on posting things your way, I suggest you follow your own idea, and
start a new group, called alt.binaries.yenc.aviation or something of the
like. Being so smart on usenet I'm sure you know how to send a control
message to start such a group.

This is not the good old boys club or a membership only group.
It's an open public system and you have to expect and allow for
posts other than a simple picture file.

I'm sorry, but no. A pub is a public place, where anywone can walk in. But
that does not mean you can take over the place, and do whatever you like.

We've come a long way since z-modem 2400 baud connects and it's
about time the whiners accept that fact or they should just place
their 8088 machines in the closet.

The only whiners I see are the little guys that keep on telling the world
there's a new invention, and we should all join the latest and greatest.
I've got some disappointing news for you. yEnc is far from new. In fact, it
already existed last century. I know, cause I tried it back then. I tried
two times after that, every time with a pause of some years. Just like I
tried other posting software, and even Usenet webinterfaces (puke). I'm just
happy with what I got. Standard Windows-software is neatly doing what I
expect it to do. I don't need you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell
me what I'm doing is wrong, or old fashioned. I know it is wrong to post
binaries on Usenet. I know Usenet is old fashioned. I like still it that
way.

Now, go downstairs to your mom, and ask her for a cookie. You're too young
to be here. Usenet is the underbelly of the Internet. Most content is
illegal, porn, or both. I'm sure your mom wouldn't like to see you in a
neighbourhood like that.

Ron
--
Non urinat in ventum

"Clem" wrote

I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

You seem to think that everyone should see things the way you do.

Flash: I've got news for you. Not everyone wants to; no, there are people
that could give a **** less about learning how to do all the files, formats,
and new newsreaders and new news servers.

It isn't a a priority, at all.

So, rather than bitch about it (again and again and again), just let them
have their rant, and move on. Do your own thing, and let it go.

Please?
--
Jim in NC

Abc wrote in :

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

Lee wrote in
.89:

Clem wrote in
. 97.136:

(snip)

Clem, you're a little late to the dance, and you're not
hearing the music correctly... Oy Vey.




I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

As far as not seeing all the files post to a server or a
file falling into oblivion, learn how a news server system
works and you'll learn why the problems happen.

The way some out here talk, you would think that gif's/jpg's
get through 100% of the time and all other formats don't.
That's simply not true.

First and foremost, understand what a binary file is.

Binary files can contain images, sounds, compressed versions
of other files, etc. in short, any type of file content whatsoever.

J3 has every right to post any type of picture file he wants.

When you have a group named alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
you provide an open door for any format to be posted.

If you want a limited type of format, then start a group called
alt.snaphotpictures.aviation. or alt.pictures.aviation. I can't
find either one in my lists.

This is not the good old boys club or a membership only group.
It's an open public system and you have to expect and allow for
posts other than a simple picture file.

We've come a long way since z-modem 2400 baud connects and it's
about time the whiners accept that fact or they should just place
their 8088 machines in the closet.

It's whitchcraft I tell ya!

Clem,
Ithink you did not understand the problem.
Par and rar are useful to post large files; videos for example.
They allow to break a large file into small files and to reconstruct it
safely.
But they are useless to post jpeg.It a waste of time for the uploader
and for the downloader.
It is that simple

I understand your argument and I agree to a point what you interpret
as a problem when posting a rar file. I can't comment on rar files
specifically as I have very little knowledge of the software basics
surrounding it.

My point however is the name this group. It operates under a binary
designation. By definition alone, everyone is justified uploading any
form of binary files, not just jpg or gif.

I will not apologize for what common sense or pure definition alone
tells all of us what the truth is. I'm not telling you anything you
probably don't know already, but hear me out.

Again, a binary files can contain images, sounds, COMPRESSED VERSIONS
of other files, etc.. In short, any type of file content whatsoever.

When you look at a picture file on some ng's all you see is this:

..JPG
gABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQYGBcU
BYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYaKCgoKCgo

This is just a few lines of what a jpg file looks like in raw text.

You are forced to download the entire file to your computer and
only then be able to view it with the appropriate reader.

The software on the server has it's switchs turned off which
normally allow the execution of a seamless connection to
software on your computer so you may view a picture file without
having to download it. The later being looked upon as advances
in software technology. Upgrading, what a concept. But not here!

If this group wants to limit the type of pictures uploaded, then
drop the binary designation in the name which should ensure that
all uploads will be limited in size and only be seen as raw text
until they are first downloaded.

Unfortunately, you can't go backwards with a ng name. You have
to contact your news provider and request a name not in use. I
gave several, any takers?

If memory serves me correctly, trying to upload to large a file
to a non-binary group such as mpegs, rars and the lot, will only
cause the file to fall automatically into a black hole which is
why you see so little spam on non-binary ng's. JPEG's and GIF's
are not as large and can be uploaded.

If I see a sign that says "expressway", do you think I'm only
going to drive 25mph on it? I don't think so and also think some
people on this ng need to better understand what the subject
matter is about before they cry and whine.

A door has been left open for all to post whatever they desire.

As a matter of record, I told J3 that perhaps a few teasers in
a JPG format would be nice. If someone liked them, then email
each other. Starting an FTP system for members only might be a
good idea for this group.

ISP's often have file storage capabilities with each account.
Tie your systems into a ring and you have the makings of your
own private ng parked on a public news system.

Considering the trouble our servers have given us, this is
an idea that should be looked into. A free restricted system.
Break the rules and your access is revoked. Simple, no?

Oh shoot! This means that some people would have to learn
something. Woe is me! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to educate anyone
specifically . . . especially not all those naysayer's using
MSOE!!

Naa, let's all thump our chests, ward off evil spirits and
chase newbies away from here. That way when your all dead
this place will be quiet as a graveyard. That's what you want?

It's witchcraft I tell ya . . . if men were ment to fly, God
would have given them wings.

If you believe that, you'll also believe there is no logical
way to correct this problem.

Any takers ????

When you get beyond the use of fire, clubs and rocks give me a call.

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Clem" wrote

I heard the music just fine. A bunch of idiots who can't
get past a JPG, do nothing but cry when presented with a
different format. Boo ****ing hoo! Update the outdated
software or quit bitching that you can't decode the files
or don't want them posted at all.

You seem to think that everyone should see things the way you do.

Flash: I've got news for you. Not everyone wants to; no, there are
people that could give a **** less about learning how to do all the
files, formats, and new newsreaders and new news servers.

It isn't a a priority, at all.

So, rather than bitch about it (again and again and again), just let
them have their rant, and move on. Do your own thing, and let it go.

Please?

You didn't get my point. It's not what I personaly want, it's the idea that
when a few want to expand their horizons, a few narrow minded twits think
they know everything jump in and try to chase others from here.

I really don't care to deal with rar files myself, but just because an idea
or use is different around here, is no reason to scream the skies are
falling in.

What gets me are the lies I read here. If you don't like a format for any
reason, say why. Don't take the long way around the truth and tell people
that yEnc is unacceptable because it's only used in the porn industry. I
wet my drawers after hearing that one.

I honestly think that J3 had no idea how bad some of the servers were but
felt that because he was crapped on, he said screw it and gave us the full
monty.

If people want to use 20 year old technology don't let me stop them. On the
same hand, don't complain about what won't decode on your reader either.

In short if you or I don't like a particular file format, pass it up.

If all a person does is bitch and whine about certain files or any file
beyond a simple still, why call this group:

alt.BINARIES.pictures.aviation? Think about it Einstein!