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  #11  
Old November 1st 17, 03:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Posts: 57
Default Train Wreck

The good thing about Facebook is that you can decide to follow it or not. Nobody gets pulled in to a Facebook posting who didn't decide to be there. But when you post something tantalizingly called "Train Wreck" on a public forum then you are deliberately attempting to pull people into your petty squabble. Please take it somewhere else. It demeans all of us and our sport.
ROY
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  #12  
Old November 1st 17, 04:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
XC
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Posts: 91
Default Train Wreck

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 10:07:38 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
The good thing about Facebook is that you can decide to follow it or not. Nobody gets pulled in to a Facebook posting who didn't decide to be there. But when you post something tantalizingly called "Train Wreck" on a public forum then you are deliberately attempting to pull people into your petty squabble. Please take it somewhere else. It demeans all of us and our sport.

  #13  
Old November 1st 17, 03:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kevin Christner
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Posts: 189
Default Train Wreck

In the past month we've seen media reports about the harassment suffered by many in Hollywood and elsewhere. Fidler's (or should I say Wilbur's) harassment of many in our small community has been just as despicable for many years. He's able to continue with his behaviors because too many remain silent, or as in your case, appear to be an apologist for his behavior. While he attacks with seeming impunity you attack those who call out his sick behavior. Think about that before you attack those who have been his targets.

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:10:10 PM UTC-4, Retting wrote:
Two idiots now. Great.
Someone smart enough delete this thread.
Must be Holloween.
R

  #14  
Old November 1st 17, 04:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ron Gleason
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Posts: 379
Default Train Wreck

On Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:18:12 UTC-6, XC wrote:
Dang! Got drawn in again!

I’m ashamed to admit I have been following Sean Fidler’s “why didn’t I get chosen” rants on Facebook. It is hard to look away from a train wreck I guess. I am embarrassed for him. I've never seen someone take a decision so badly. So much misinformation and so little space to refute it!

For those who haven’t heard SF wasn’t chosen to represent the US in the 18m at the 2018 WGC in the Czech Republic. He was chosen to go Poland in the 15m class. Hardly an insult but his insecurities got the better of him, he ungraciously declined the 15m class and ever since the world has not been right.

Let me first say I do not represent the selection committee in any way. They have been working hard at this and deserve our thanks not attacks.

The selection process is different this year. This has been known to all the candidates for some time now. First, a pilot qualifies for consideration by getting a ranking of 90% or better by averaging various comps.

In phase two, the pilot’s fellow competitors who scored at least 85% of the winners score in a US Nationals in the last three years rank order the candidates based on who they think would represent the US best at the WGC. Listed below are the pilots who voted in the 18m class.

Fletcher, Robert W.
Leonard, David
Fidler, Sean
Ittner, Gary N.
Nelson, Erik
Clark, Robin
Alexander, Peter T.
Nichols, Steve
Sorenson, Kenneth G.
Indrebo, Rick
Nadler, David R.
Zimmerman, Sam R., III
Murray, John
Arnold, Sarah Kelly
Gawthrop, Bill
Linnekin, Dennis
Gimmey, Ray
Tyler, Allison H., Jr.
Roberts, Sheridan
Mockler, David R.
Cochrane, John H.
Lee, Jim
Welles, Gillette 'Tim'
Deane, Peter
Martin, David V.
Coggins, David L.
Keene, Mark
Franke, Sean

This is a pretty sharp group. In fact it would be hard to assemble such a good group of decision makers any other way. There was well over 90% participation rate I’m told and more details will follow from official sources. What was put forth was their decision.

After the vote the committee can make adjustments to field a good team. For example they may pair up two people who work well together or select someone with experience applicable to the WGC site. I am told that this was not implemented in any of the classes this year.

I can only guess at why others didn’t rank him well in the 18m class. I ranked him low in the 15m because he doesn't do well in a TAT or a MAT task. If he doesn’t have markers around him he tends not to do so well. MAT task aside, there are still quite a few TAT tasks at the WGC and pilot needs to be able to perform if they find themselves separated from the lead gaggle. On top of all that he doesn't work well with others and is an internet troll. Sorry, but we all know it to be true.

So all this talk about deficiencies in the US rules, MAT tasks being bad, flying primarily racing tasks, "true racing tasks", etc. is smoke and mirrors for one thing, wanting to make sailplane racing about following others around the course in gaggles and not making decisions on one's own, hanging back and leap frogging over the guys in front. The pilot who makes a bold decision is really taking a risk.

IGC racing is what it is. Yes, there is a lot of gaggle flying required but in the end we still need to send brilliant pilots who process a full set of soaring skills.

Sean Fidler didn't make the cut (in 18m) and is having a tough time dealing with the fact.

Sean Murphy


I have no skin in this game, other being a subsidizer, pilot that has flown in USA contests for fun and experience but not a chance or real desire to win, and one that has part of a group that organizes and runs SSA sanctioned competitions.

XC, I would like to see the selection committee publish the details on the selection process and the data. While I have no reason to believe the information you posted is inaccurate we will only know the facts when the US selection committee speaks up.

Why they have not published anything is baffling. Furthermore an outcome like this should not be a surprise to anyone with the new process put in place. FWIW I do not like the new process.

Ron Gleason
  #15  
Old November 1st 17, 04:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 125
Default Train Wreck


Yes, I realize this is ugly business and shouldn't be put out there but when you see posting with headlines such as this you feel compelled to respond.

"Cronyism permeates the corrupt US International Team Committee selection process for the 18-meter class (and likely others)"

Posts like this simply make your stomach turn. Go ahead and read it. So sad to see somebody unable to recognize their own shortcomings. Bragging is no replacement for actual performance. Rather then work toward improvement, SF lashes out and try to blame others. Sad.

XC


It's about time. Spot on XC; thank you for stepping up!

IMO, internet rantings, first person criticism, "assassinations" of volunteer leadership, and child-like whining only have a negative impact and will never accelerate one's soaring career. Wake up hopefuls; get the message!

And to those crying "ugly", where was your "voice" when the rantings, criticism, "assassinations", and whining first appeared?


  #16  
Old November 1st 17, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Hendron
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Posts: 2
Default Train Wreck

Thanks, Ron and others, for using the thread to discuss the topic raised.

To the annoyed crowd, sure, it was a clickbait title, but the content is fair game for this public forum. If someone doesn't care, they can stop reading and move on. Pushing personal standards for post-worthiness (i.e., venting and/or pettyness not allowed) is counterproductive if other readers may care. Counter-rants are fine (lest I sound like a hypocrite), but best when they have some substance rather than just whining about getting hooked by a thread.

  #17  
Old November 2nd 17, 12:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Posts: 257
Default Train Wreck

It's good to have a discussion of this new selection system on RAS, and it has to include specific cases, hard as that may be.

FWIW, I voted Sean highly in both classes, with a warning -- very talented and young (by our standards) pilot, but tends to be a bit unstable especially behind a keyboard. A true champion has emotional equanimity.

A lot of us would be happy to have to leave our wingtip extensions home and get to fly a WGC!

John Cochrane
  #18  
Old November 2nd 17, 02:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Posts: 423
Default Train Wreck

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 11:04:56 AM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:18:12 UTC-6, XC wrote:
Dang! Got drawn in again!

I’m ashamed to admit I have been following Sean Fidler’s “why didn’t I get chosen” rants on Facebook. It is hard to look away from a train wreck I guess. I am embarrassed for him. I've never seen someone take a decision so badly. So much misinformation and so little space to refute it!

For those who haven’t heard SF wasn’t chosen to represent the US in the 18m at the 2018 WGC in the Czech Republic. He was chosen to go Poland in the 15m class. Hardly an insult but his insecurities got the better of him, he ungraciously declined the 15m class and ever since the world has not been right.

Let me first say I do not represent the selection committee in any way. They have been working hard at this and deserve our thanks not attacks.

The selection process is different this year. This has been known to all the candidates for some time now. First, a pilot qualifies for consideration by getting a ranking of 90% or better by averaging various comps.

In phase two, the pilot’s fellow competitors who scored at least 85% of the winners score in a US Nationals in the last three years rank order the candidates based on who they think would represent the US best at the WGC. Listed below are the pilots who voted in the 18m class.

Fletcher, Robert W.
Leonard, David
Fidler, Sean
Ittner, Gary N.
Nelson, Erik
Clark, Robin
Alexander, Peter T.
Nichols, Steve
Sorenson, Kenneth G.
Indrebo, Rick
Nadler, David R.
Zimmerman, Sam R., III
Murray, John
Arnold, Sarah Kelly
Gawthrop, Bill
Linnekin, Dennis
Gimmey, Ray
Tyler, Allison H., Jr.
Roberts, Sheridan
Mockler, David R.
Cochrane, John H.
Lee, Jim
Welles, Gillette 'Tim'
Deane, Peter
Martin, David V.
Coggins, David L.
Keene, Mark
Franke, Sean

This is a pretty sharp group. In fact it would be hard to assemble such a good group of decision makers any other way. There was well over 90% participation rate I’m told and more details will follow from official sources. What was put forth was their decision.

After the vote the committee can make adjustments to field a good team. For example they may pair up two people who work well together or select someone with experience applicable to the WGC site. I am told that this was not implemented in any of the classes this year.

I can only guess at why others didn’t rank him well in the 18m class. I ranked him low in the 15m because he doesn't do well in a TAT or a MAT task. If he doesn’t have markers around him he tends not to do so well. MAT task aside, there are still quite a few TAT tasks at the WGC and pilot needs to be able to perform if they find themselves separated from the lead gaggle. On top of all that he doesn't work well with others and is an internet troll. Sorry, but we all know it to be true.

So all this talk about deficiencies in the US rules, MAT tasks being bad, flying primarily racing tasks, "true racing tasks", etc. is smoke and mirrors for one thing, wanting to make sailplane racing about following others around the course in gaggles and not making decisions on one's own, hanging back and leap frogging over the guys in front. The pilot who makes a bold decision is really taking a risk.

IGC racing is what it is. Yes, there is a lot of gaggle flying required but in the end we still need to send brilliant pilots who process a full set of soaring skills.

Sean Fidler didn't make the cut (in 18m) and is having a tough time dealing with the fact.

Sean Murphy


I have no skin in this game, other being a subsidizer, pilot that has flown in USA contests for fun and experience but not a chance or real desire to win, and one that has part of a group that organizes and runs SSA sanctioned competitions.

XC, I would like to see the selection committee publish the details on the selection process and the data. While I have no reason to believe the information you posted is inaccurate we will only know the facts when the US selection committee speaks up.

Why they have not published anything is baffling. Furthermore an outcome like this should not be a surprise to anyone with the new process put in place. FWIW I do not like the new process.

Ron Gleason


So where is the announcement who got selected for the US Team? Nothing on the ssa.org website.
  #19  
Old November 2nd 17, 12:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Posts: 423
Default Train Wreck

On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 8:18:12 PM UTC-4, XC wrote:
Dang! Got drawn in again!

I’m ashamed to admit I have been following Sean Fidler’s “why didn’t I get chosen” rants on Facebook. It is hard to look away from a train wreck I guess. I am embarrassed for him. I've never seen someone take a decision so badly. So much misinformation and so little space to refute it!

For those who haven’t heard SF wasn’t chosen to represent the US in the 18m at the 2018 WGC in the Czech Republic. He was chosen to go Poland in the 15m class. Hardly an insult but his insecurities got the better of him, he ungraciously declined the 15m class and ever since the world has not been right.

Let me first say I do not represent the selection committee in any way. They have been working hard at this and deserve our thanks not attacks.

The selection process is different this year. This has been known to all the candidates for some time now. First, a pilot qualifies for consideration by getting a ranking of 90% or better by averaging various comps.

In phase two, the pilot’s fellow competitors who scored at least 85% of the winners score in a US Nationals in the last three years rank order the candidates based on who they think would represent the US best at the WGC. Listed below are the pilots who voted in the 18m class.

Fletcher, Robert W.
Leonard, David
Fidler, Sean
Ittner, Gary N.
Nelson, Erik
Clark, Robin
Alexander, Peter T.
Nichols, Steve
Sorenson, Kenneth G.
Indrebo, Rick
Nadler, David R.
Zimmerman, Sam R., III
Murray, John
Arnold, Sarah Kelly
Gawthrop, Bill
Linnekin, Dennis
Gimmey, Ray
Tyler, Allison H., Jr.
Roberts, Sheridan
Mockler, David R.
Cochrane, John H.
Lee, Jim
Welles, Gillette 'Tim'
Deane, Peter
Martin, David V.
Coggins, David L.
Keene, Mark
Franke, Sean

This is a pretty sharp group. In fact it would be hard to assemble such a good group of decision makers any other way. There was well over 90% participation rate I’m told and more details will follow from official sources. What was put forth was their decision.

After the vote the committee can make adjustments to field a good team. For example they may pair up two people who work well together or select someone with experience applicable to the WGC site. I am told that this was not implemented in any of the classes this year.

I can only guess at why others didn’t rank him well in the 18m class. I ranked him low in the 15m because he doesn't do well in a TAT or a MAT task. If he doesn’t have markers around him he tends not to do so well. MAT task aside, there are still quite a few TAT tasks at the WGC and pilot needs to be able to perform if they find themselves separated from the lead gaggle. On top of all that he doesn't work well with others and is an internet troll. Sorry, but we all know it to be true.

So all this talk about deficiencies in the US rules, MAT tasks being bad, flying primarily racing tasks, "true racing tasks", etc. is smoke and mirrors for one thing, wanting to make sailplane racing about following others around the course in gaggles and not making decisions on one's own, hanging back and leap frogging over the guys in front. The pilot who makes a bold decision is really taking a risk.

IGC racing is what it is. Yes, there is a lot of gaggle flying required but in the end we still need to send brilliant pilots who process a full set of soaring skills.

Sean Fidler didn't make the cut (in 18m) and is having a tough time dealing with the fact.

Sean Murphy


Sean, since you made a statement in the public forum "If he doesn’t have markers around him he tends not to do so well.", could you tell us how you made that determination?

I actually went to Sean's FB page and then watched some videos Sean produced to show that there was no merit to your claim.

I assume you have done some analysis as well to come up with your statement.. Have you gone over all flight logs and found that this was a pattern? Can you show this to us? I also watched Sean's other videos from previous Nationals and I simply don't think your statement is accurate.

Unless you have proof, based on flight analysis it is simply a character assassination on a public forum.

Also since there was no public announcement about who made the team, you simply created a messy situation.

Andrzej

  #20  
Old November 2nd 17, 02:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 32
Default Train Wreck

What I said just my opinion as a fellow competitor. I was looking forward to a day 4 at Cordele this year because a TAT was called and cloud bases were low. To me that meant pilots would get separated and I felt that would help me make up points on SF. Unfortunately, the day was cancelled and we ended up a three day nationals with three ATs.

So my assessment is based on flying against the guy and seeing his body language when a MAT or a TAT is called. He actually cringes because he knows it may be his undoing. BB expressed his opinion yesterday and he felt differently. Those other competitors voted their opinions and results were tallied. That is how the selection process went. Again, in the 15m, he was offered a spot.

If you have been to SF’s Facebook page or webpage you know he attacked everyone involved and said a bunch of things that had no basis in fact. Before I said anything here I tried to call him personally. He wouldn’t take my call. I then posted a reply on Facebook to counter some of the misinformation. It and all dissenting remarks have been removed. I wouldn’t put too much stock on any analysis assembled by Sean on his own page.

I stand by my assessment and don’t feel badly commenting on a guy who so freely shares his opinions with the world. If Sean’s your friend and if you want help him out maybe you can call him help him deal with situation in more graceful manner.

Sean Murphy

 




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