A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Cost to install a canopy?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 9th 05, 06:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

Earlier, Roger Worden wrote:

Factory labor to assemble new things in
an repetitive process is usually less
expensive than a craftsman in the field
repairing a similar unit...

... or maybe the typical economics don't
hold true in this market.


The latter, quite definitely. Even in the highest-volume glider
"factory," craftsmen doing things onesey-twosey hold the central part
of the process. I think that none of the big players make more than a
few hundred units a year. That may sound like a lot, but it's a far cry
from the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of units you'd see
on a car or motorcycle production line.

The bottom line is that even in the factory environment manufacuring
glider parts is an expensive proposition. It may be less expensive than
field repairs and fabrication, but not by much, and business and
transportation expenses more than make up the difference.

Yes, it is definitely faster and more efficient to make a canopy and
frame assembly in the factory. They have the tools and processes and
procedures in place to do it correctly in the fewest possible hours.
However, with production rates so low, and with the installed base so
small, it simply does not make economic sense for them to dedicate part
of their production to spares manufacturing. For a lot of the parts,
they'd end up with a lot of expensive shelf space dedicated to
expensive spare parts for which there is no definite demand. That makes
sense when there are tens of thousands of units with an established
history of spares requirements. But with a few hundred units in the
field there simply is not enough data to build a realistic model of the
spares requirements.

Another problem is that, here in the US at least, the factory is a long
way away. That means expensive transatlantic shipping of a delicate
assembly.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

Ads
  #12  
Old December 9th 05, 11:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?


Bob Kuykendall wrote:
Another problem is that, here in the US at least, the factory is a long
way away. That means expensive transatlantic shipping of a delicate
assembly.


I heard a rumor that some guy is working hard at establishing a
"factory" for a sleek-looking glider right here in the US. ;-)

The facts so far: I have been amazed at how many "original" parts I
have been able to buy for my 30 year old glider (Schreder RS-15) from
this same guy! Keep it up, Bob.

Regards,

-Doug Hoffman

  #13  
Old December 11th 05, 01:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

Here is an article I found on how to make the canopy blank yourself:

http://www.sportaviation.org/magazin...mer/canopy.pdf

Still, it is a fair amount of effort for one canopy.

Tom

  #14  
Old December 11th 05, 02:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

Roger,

Tons of good posts here. FWIW, I've done a couple of canopy repair jobs
(not complete replacements), and everything mentioned elsewhere holds
true:

- It's doable if you are average to above-average handy with tools and
finishing work.
- Figure out how long you think it will take. Then triple that
estimate.
- It can be very satisfying.
- The downside risk is pretty high.

I'm probably in the "above average" category in terms of experience
working with filler,epoxy, and finish sanding, and I've managed to get
results ranging from decent to spectacularly poor. If the canopy is
already in pretty bad shape, then attempting a home-grown repair or
refurbish may not be such a bad thing. You might learn something, and
the worst that happens is you have to get the new canopy after all.

Erik Mann (P3)

  #15  
Old December 11th 05, 05:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

I manufacture Transparencies for a living.
Mostly windshields for sports cars. There are so
many places to screw up that it can be a truly
humbling experience. What puzzles me is that
most folks give little atention to the canopy as
it ages. You can double the life of a canopy
by keeping it squeaky clean and polishing the
surfaces at least annually. Proper polishing
doesn't remove material from the plastic, it removes crap
from the plastic. Micromesh is NOT a polishing system
it is much too agressive, it is for repair work. Even
with normal care, the exterior (interior also) will eventually
degrade and start to produce chalk like deposits as the
monomers in the plastic sublimate. Once it gets to this
state, you basically are on life support. If you have
a canopy that is so old it just won't polish well,
Micromesh probably won't help as the sublimation is
in most cases deeper than the max grind depth of the system.
When you get to this place, toss the book aside, and get a bit creative.
The object of the game is now to stop sublimation and seal the canopy
surface with something you can see thru. Believe it or not, the
green can TURTLE WAX will make things a lot better. It
will fill the small scratches and surface pores and get you back
to a usable canopy surface. The downside is that it stops the canopys
ability to breathe and adjust to humidity changes which will cause
a higher internal hoop stress load to exist and make the canopy less
forgiving to bumps and racking. DON'T do this to a canopy with
life left in it, but when the choice is this or a replacement, I like doing
this first.
I've got some vintage race cars going on 5 or 6 years doing this. They
are one step from the grave as far as repairability, but they still work ok
enough to use. As far as day to day maintenance, a couple thoughts.
First, Plexiglass (PMMA) isn't really a solid. It is an incredibly viscous
liquid and is pourous. This means that the stuff it is made of can
"evaporate"
(sublimate) over time. It also means that stuff you put on it can "go into
suspension" inside the plastic. This is why I cringe so bad when I see
Lemon Pledge used on a canopy. Not only is the propellant, usually
isobutane, (a great solvent I might add) trapped inside the canopy by the
wax
so it can disolve the internal structure of the plastic, but the free
breathing of
the plastic and its ability to adjust its relative humidity are compromised.
Dust can do the same thing, it will plug the plastic pores and in most cases
it is acidic and will react adversely to the plastic. So what to do.
Keep a piece of dry flannel on the canopy when you aren't using it. Only
use good quality plastic cleaners designed for the plastic you have. Always
start a canopy cleaning with clear water to get the dust off the canopy
before you start smushing it into the plastic with your cleaning rag.
Only use soft cotton to clean the canopy, old diapers are the gold
standard. I hope this helps, and no, I'm not looking for canopy work....

Scott.



  #16  
Old December 11th 05, 10:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?


pbc76049 (removethis) wrote:
I manufacture Transparencies for a living...


Spectr Scott, I been trying to get ahold of you. Drop me an email when
you can.

Thanks, Bob K.

  #17  
Old December 11th 05, 10:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

Earlier, Doug Hoffman wrote:
Bob Kuykendall wrote:


I heard a rumor that some guy is working hard at establishing a
"factory" for a sleek-looking glider right here in the US. ;-)


It's been rough going, but we're plugging along!

Thanks again, Bob K.

  #18  
Old December 14th 05, 05:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cost to install a canopy?

I've replaced a couple of Grob canopies, but it has been over 10 years
ago. Each went like this -

Tools -
Air powered die grinder with sanding disks and cutoff wheel
Screwdriver
Foil tape
Plastic drill and countersink
Small paint gun


Day one -
With the frame in place on the glider I used the grinder with sanding
disk and removed the gel where it contacts the frame. Cut off the
remaining canopy next to the frame with a cutoff wheel. (I once saw a
Grob mech beat one off with a hammer.) Chiseled and ground off all
plastic and the resin used to bond it to the frame. Grob uses small
screws to hold it place while the resin cures. Ground those off also.
(Approx 4 hours)

Day two-
The canopy comes oversize. Placed it on the still in place frame and
adjusted its position while overlapped and taped in place with clear
tape. Ran the cutoff wheel around and used the frame edge as a guide
removing all excess. Taped again in place. Drilled and countersinked
holes for small brass screws using a drill modified for plastic
(careful here or you'll break it). Removed canopy and put a bead of
resin on the frame. Pealed back the protective plastic around the
edge. Put it back on and lightly (real lightly) screwed it down.
(Approx 4 hours)

Day three-
Masked off at the level of the frame with metal foil tape. Hand
sanded the canopy edge to roughen and remove the resin squeeze-out.
Filled the gaps and screw heads with white Bondo and block sanded
level. Shot on gel coat with a touchup gun. After it cured, sanded
and polished the gel. Removed all the tape and protective plastic.
Cleaned and waxed it. Signed off the work in the log. (Approx 6
hours)

The moral(s) of the story is that it's not a huge task, break it and
you'll buy another, and these are hand built aircraft. The frame from
one probably won't fit another. Leave the frame in place while you
change the glass and it will fit like the original. Most of all, this
is how I did it. What you do is at your own risk. ;-)

  #19  
Old November 15th 17, 12:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Cost to install a canopy?

Hello Roger, i have a gas station where i want to get canopy installed
If u can email me at
  #20  
Old November 15th 17, 03:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default Cost to install a canopy?

I believe you want an awning type thing, we are talking about clear/tinted plastic over the cockpit of an aircraft.

Try another Google search.

;-)
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Enroute GPS Install Cost? Carl Orton Owning 3 May 28th 05 02:26 PM
Cost to install IFR GPS in a basic IFR 172? C Kingsbury Owning 37 August 29th 04 02:22 PM
Duo Discus canopy problems David Starer Soaring 4 June 20th 04 11:09 PM
Canopy crack repair Pete Brown Soaring 0 May 18th 04 03:09 AM
Redundant canopy latching John Soaring 5 March 16th 04 01:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.