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SGP vs. Normal Racing



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 7th 18, 08:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default SGP vs. Normal Racing

Aspects of a SGP that are great for spectators but not the greatest for safety:

As mentioned, starting everyone at the same time.

Scoring formula that gives you a whole place if you beat the other guy by one meter. And no more credit if you beat him by a lot.

This produces strategies much like sailboat racing. You don't have to go fast, you just have to beat the other guy. So if you can, get an energy advantage and cover, then dash to the finish. And argue about the last meter.

All landouts are the same.

From the reports, the last day in chile the pilots stuck in a big gaggle and kept pushing lower and lower over poor terrain. That makes sense strategically.

In the past, scoring finishes at zero altitude led to some very spectator-friendly finishes, but not exactly pilot friendly. Interestingly SGP has put in some altitude minimums in the interest of safety that remain controversial in regular US racing.

To its credit, starting everyone at the same time means start late, catch the gaggle and sit there will not work.

For pilot enjoyment, grand prix starts -- including allowing pilots to leave early if they choose to do so -- plus regular scoring might cut down on start roulette and leeching, without the incentives of win by a meter scoring. Granted it would be a lot less fun for the spectators who now want to see if Sebastian will or will not keep that meter or two ahead of Tilo.

Not a criticism really,
  #22  
Old February 7th 18, 08:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Default SGP vs. Normal Racing

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 5:15:07 AM UTC-8, Justin Craig wrote:

Wrong...

Please elaborate...

Take the mountains out of the equation, why is it...?


I'll take "sealioning" for a thousand, Alex.
  #23  
Old February 7th 18, 10:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom Kelley #711
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Default SGP vs. Normal Racing

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:

To its credit, starting everyone at the same time means start late, catch the gaggle and sit there will not work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=sd5lfB-MsKc

Well, I am now again amazed that we have so many armchair experts who know so much yet have never flown an SGP qualifier or World final. Simply amazing.

The above video at (a cough) 2:57 or so, shows me, #711(applause please) as being in last place (which 7T happily announce's) @ the 2017 Orlando SGP qualifier.

Yet, I go on to win the day. (Thank you, applause, please). As a old man just had to say that! The start is really not a major concern(its a fairly long start line and folks are spread out). Out on course, the group does try different ideas. We all know thermals cycle and have watched those below or above climb up or slip away). Also, a small different spot on the ridge does matter for best lift. Listening to a couple of guys announce what the pilots are doing or thinking out on the course is no different than announcers on Nascar or the NFL. Spector appeal is what they are trying to sell! They aren't seeing what the pilots are and really have no idea what the guys are thinking!

Now, about this being a spectator sport. Over the last 8 World finals for the SGP, the live views have remanded constant at around 9,000 live views per final. You can also check the YouTube views for daily grid interviews, etc. Knowledge will bring wisdom which may better educate one's views. Needless, unfounded, radical extreme rants do not foster nor promote our sport.

The last 2 days in Vitacure I didn't fly and sat in the restaurant watching the big screen. Thier were plenty of chairs available. If you check the pictures on my blog, you can see the dining room for the chairs. On the finishes, well less than a hundred or so folks (remember there was an airshow to attract interest) were outside watching.

Appears "fake news and views" has now made an appearance on RAS(again). OMG, Wait a minute, Pelosi lives in your district( hell, she's still ranting on), now I understand! :))).

Best. Tom #711.






  #24  
Old February 7th 18, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
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Default SGP vs. Normal Racing

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 11:48:11 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-5, Jim White wrote:
I have bailed out of the hard deck thread as I think that all opinions have
been aired once or maybe twice!

The hard deck discussion started out following the dreadful accident in
Chile and was an attempt to discuss making all competition safer.

However, when I think around the subject, isn't the real issue about the
use of the SGP format?

We have adopted and developed SGP in order to make the sport more exciting.
Not just for pilots but also the wider public who may find the racing more
interesting and might be encouraged to enter our sport.

I suggest that by doing SGP racing we have also made racing less safe
because the format fundamentally changes the risk / reward balance.

In normal racing if you were 3 minutes behind the leader you came in with
980 points instead of 1000 and could catch up the next day. In SGP 3
minutes could well mean 0 points and you are out of the game.

The question I raise is this: have we made gliding less safe by making it
more exciting, or have we made gliding more exciting by deciding to make it
less safe??

Anyone remember the 1975 film Rollerball?


I think the SGP format is great for the big boys - get 15 world class guys and you have something really interesting. Just like the Red Bull Air Race, the Indy 500 ............. experts only and a limited known driver pool.. It is exciting to watch experts get close to the edge and really sad when the edge bites back.

The issue will be / if it is not already a issue..... too many gliders, too many inexperienced skilled pilots ..... i.e. FL?....... Sorry but I do not think the format can be expanded past the very top guys in the world without a huge problem.

My 2 cents, since I am on a lunch break

WH


FAI SGP format ain't the only way to run a Grand Prix style race. A few years ago, a series of GP format races sports class races were run out of Seminole Lake Gliderport. That's flat-as-a-table Florida,for all y'all from outside the USA. I was lucky enough to be able to participate in one GP weekend. Great fun. About 10-12 pilots. I saw no safety problem with the start. We started at an altitude that would be unremarkable for any regular contest.. We were more or less line abreast. We could all see each other and all going in more or less the same direction. Very cool to see. Lots of cu's that day so the fleet spread out pretty quick as each went their own way searching for a faster path through the air. We were all anxious to get away from the group, so gaggling was not an issue. I saw hardly anyone out on course, but somehow I would meet up with the same pilots at the turns. Very interesting that we took different paths but ended up so close. Most of the group arrived at the last turn more or less together. Then it was a drag race to the finish. We had a minimum finish height, just like any other sports class race, so one got too low. There was still enough lift to sustain, so entering the pattern and landing was a relaxed affair. I'd say that particular GP experience presented no more risk, or even less risk due to the low number of racers, than the average sports class contest day.

I'd say the lesson is that the GP format can be fun and safe as long as one adapts it to the local conditions.



WB.
  #25  
Old February 8th 18, 10:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default SGP vs. Normal Racing

The finish is not the problem. The reason for limited numbers at a SGP is the starts, 20 gliders on the line at the same height, speed and time is enough.
Tom Claffey
 




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