AOPA and ATC Privatization

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:44:45 GMT, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
. net:

Current air traffic controllers are the only people in the nation with
the necessary job skills to work in such a system.

Why wouldn't Boeing, LocMart, or Raytheon staff their privatized ATC
monopoly with ATC controllers based in India?


--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:01:48 GMT, David Megginson
wrote in Message-Id:
:

It won't be able just to raise fees whenever it feels like it.

Call me cynical, but that statement makes me laugh.

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:09:04 GMT, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
. net:

What "technology?"


"New air traffic management technologies abound..."



http://www.boeing.com/atm/bold/index.html
Air Traffic Management
Bold Approach


Introduction to Boeing Concept: Comprehensive Change

Boeing takes an uncommon approach to air traffic management. New air
traffic management technologies abound, and some of them are being
pilot-tested at airports and on airplanes today. On closer scrutiny,
however, these technology-driven solutions do not revolutionize the
air traffic system on a global scale. Boeing not only will integrate
all the discrete elements of an entire airspace system to achieve
lasting results, but we have the resources, intellectual property and
large-scale integration expertise to implement programs of this scope.
The objectives of the program are to:


Make flying even safer and more secure.

The concept will support real-time detection, response and consequence
management using a highly integrated global system perspective to
coordinate strategies among the many public and private stakeholders
when threats emerge.


Increase capacity, even as air traffic levels rise.

More accurate forecasts of traffic volume, real-time flight replanning
and tools for fast-forward simulation of system flows to evaluate
potential consequences of changes to a flight plan or traffic flow
will all help increase capacity.


Dramatically reduce congestion and delays.

Air traffic managers will use far more accurate aircraft monitoring to
alleviate congestion around crowded airports at peak times. New
procedures, tools and airspace design will enhance safety factors
while permitting closer minimum spacing than is possible today using
ground-based radar equipment.


Keep aviation affordable and accessible for commercial, military,
business and general aviation operators.

Equipage costs and airspace design will have a substantial effect on
user access to the aviation system. Boeing is working with major
stakeholders, including noncommercial operators, to define overall
system requirements.

See the graphic for an illustration of the envisioned system.

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...


The drive to lower cost, presumably through technology, would result in
fewer controller positions.


Theoretically, but how can you lower cost while you are trying to invent
and
implement technology to replace human beings? Those of us on the inside
know that "technology" isn't forthcoming that is going to replace us.
What
"technology?"

The same technology airplanes use now, Chip. The airborn portion of the
system is some of the most advanced technology in the world and the other is
trapped in the 1950's.

Costs will be lowered by reducing ATC induced delays and cancellations.

Newps writes:
Mike Rapoport wrote:

The big issue for AOPA and NBAA is allocating the costs. It costs the same
to separate a 747 from a 172 as it does to separate the 172 from the 747.

Come and listen sometime and tell me it costs the same. Most of the
time it costs 3 times as much to separate the "Hawk because of his 25
year old Narco Mk 12A.

Methinks you exaggerate grossly.

"David Megginson" wrote in message
...
"Chip Jones" writes:

Just curious again with Nav Canada. When you pay your ATC fees up
there, do
you pay Nav Canada directly, or do you pay your government who then pays
Nav
Canada?

We pay Nav Canada directly. Don't forget, though, that any privatized
ATC will still be government-regulated, because it will be a monopoly.
It won't be able just to raise fees whenever it feels like it.

Like the phone companies...the Postal (dis)service...

"David Megginson" wrote in message
...
"Tom S." writes:

We pay Nav Canada directly. Don't forget, though, that any privatized
ATC will still be government-regulated, because it will be a monopoly.
It won't be able just to raise fees whenever it feels like it.

Like the phone companies...the Postal (dis)service...

Exactly. People may whine about the pennies, but we're not exactly
paying $5/letter,

(So $4.00 a letter is okay?)

And the postal service is losing it's shirt now that it has to compete with
e-mail, FAX...

and phone service has become cheaper over the past
few years.

Since they brought in competition.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

The drive to lower cost, presumably through technology, would result in
fewer controller positions.

I wouldn't presume it would be through technology. In the telecom industry,
the drive to lower cost simply resulted in the same amount of work being done
by fewer people. This actually results in more hours being worked (by those
fewer people), but less money paid in salaries because "professionals" don't
get overtime pay. It's less efficient, but it costs less. The only technology
advance is the purchase of pagers for those poor *******s left working 7/24.

George Patterson
A friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move
the body.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:44:45 GMT, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
. net:

Current air traffic controllers are the only people in the nation with
the necessary job skills to work in such a system.

Why wouldn't Boeing, LocMart, or Raytheon staff their privatized ATC
monopoly with ATC controllers based in India?


For one thing, because the US National Airspace System is part of our
national security apparatus. I am required to maintain a security
clearance. If I lose it I am fired.

For another thing, who is going to train Indian controllers based in India
how to work Atlanta Center airspace? Boeing? NATCA? India? Not me...

Chip, ZTL

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:09:04 GMT, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
. net:

What "technology?"


"New air traffic management technologies abound..."


Pardon me Larry, but everything in the Boeing propoganda that you posted is
conceptual. *Specifically* what new technologies does Boeing have? Ever
notice how they don't get specific? Oh, that's right- it's proprietary.
"Give us a contract and then we'll let you know what we can do with it".

Chip, ZTL