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#71
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Short Wings Gliders
Here are some local statistics - Houston TX area:
At my club we had 9 short wing gliders last season. *One PW5 is a club ship and was flown in the World class nationals by a member. *4 PW5's are private and only one does not go X/C. *3 Russia's are private, 2 go X/C and the third is working toward that goal. *One Woodstock is flown X/C by its builder on a regular basis. *4 of the pilots have attended at least one X/C camp at a location hundreds of miles away. *All of the owners are over 50 except one. *Two of the Russia's were sold this winter and the members are moving up to 15M ships. Here the short wing ships are doing what the SSA intended: allowing prospective X/C pilots to buy affordable ships that are relatively new and have performance that is good enough to go X/C. I guess "affordable" should be used carefully, as we are all "older" and probably have more disposable income than the younger members. I have only seen one "youngster" buy a ship in the last 5 years. I think disposable income is shrinking for our younger pilots. I don't see as many these days, but perhaps I am just no longer paying attention. So... If our group of older pilots represents a larger group of pilots nationwide (debatable) then competitions might want to be oriented to fulfill their wants and desires. From personal experience I can tell you this group of newbies does not want to spend time getting their noses rubbed in the dirt by a bunch of super pilots flying super ships. If you want them them to go to a race IMHO, make it more like a camp or a mentoring program and hold it separately from the longer wing competitions. Lots of us just want to go fly with like minded friends. Some will feel competitive, many will attend just to learn and build stick time. I really think we need to look at this in a whole new way to make it successful. Low stress, high fun factor. I can tell you that within our club, we have doubled the number of X/C pilots in the last 5 years. X/C has really come alive because of the short wings. Brian |
#72
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Short Wings Gliders
How much of that $4500.00 was in tow?
Udo At 20:07 30 January 2009, John Smith wrote: Andreas Maurer wrote: Here in Europe by far most gliders are owned by clubs, making it possible for the club members to fligh latest technology for a yearly price that hardly exceeds $800. $800 ist *very* optimistic. It may be true for your club, but it certainly isn't typical, not even in Europe. I flew around 100 hours on club gliders last year, typically on LS8 or DG1000, fully equiped with LX5000. (Ok, on some days when many pilots showed up I had to take an LS4, which is our low-end glider...) All my flights were cross country and usually I had a glider for my own for the whole day (or a double seater with a second pilot). This cost me around $4500 (beer not included). Which is still much less than the annual cost I would have to pay for my own glider. And we launch exclusively by aerotow. |
#73
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Short Wings Gliders
So that sounds like around 12 active pilots per glider, with unlimited
hours. How do you manage contention for the gliders on the weekends? I can't answer for Andreas, and 12 pilots per seat seems a little much. In my club the relation is about 6 Pilots per seat. Granted, if every single pilot wanted to fly cross country each week-end, it wouldn't work. But do *you* fly every flyable day? Most pilots have a also life outside gliding. Most pilots don't fly each week-end. There are many pilots who fly little, maybe 20 hours a year. There are pilots who are happy to fly two hours locally on a sunday, they can easily share a glider. There are retired pilots who don't show up on the week-ends but fly during the weekdays when the rest of us must work. And then there are the camps. European clubs usually organise camps during the holidays. There are pilots who only fly in those camps. Others don't join the camps, because they want to spend their holidays with their family. Bottom line: The load balances. With the relation of 6 pilots per seat I *never* didn't get a glider on sunday. Maybe not exactly the one I wanted, but always something flyble and almost always a glider for me alone for the whole day. |
#74
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Short Wings Gliders
On Jan 30, 1:25*pm, toad wrote:
Bob, I've been following the HP-24 pages for a while. *I can't see creating a HP-24 in a "modest" amount of time, but send me the brochure ! * I would be very excited. Most of the time we've spent on the project has been dedicated to making tooling and developing prototypes. I figure the actual build time for the finalized kit will be down around 350 hours. The only thing we have in the way of a brochure is he http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/web_24_3view7.pdf Thanks, Bob K. |
#75
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Short Wings Gliders
At 21:15 30 January 2009, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 19:23 30 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote: In my club: Unlimited number of flights and hours, typically the fleet of 7 gliders does around 2.100 flights per year with about 1.700 hrs in average. In average 85-90 active pilots. So that sounds like around 12 active pilots per glider, with unlimited hours. How do you manage contention for the gliders on the weekends? Jim Beckman Many European clubs have a ballot for the club gliders with a limit on the time you can local soar, although cross-countries are unlimited. If you don't *win* a glider in the ballot, and you don't mind waiting around for a few hours you can usually get to fly later on in the day. The worst case scenario is everyone flying off cross-country and landing out, in which case you will be a 'crew'. Usually a good way of getting a meal and some free beers though, and you will build up some 'credit' for when you land out. Derek Copeland |
#76
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Short Wings Gliders
Lower cost and more
interesting sports like hang gliding and paragliding that have been particularly strong in the USA. If you want to fly something modestly attractive, paragliding is bot cheaper than gliding at all. And not more interesting, either. Most paragliders I know look with envy to the gliders. (Don't ask me why they don't change, though.) Another point is competition from power flying, which is a much more attractive proposition in the US. I believe I'm correct in thinking that flying power in most of Europe is much more expensive (and more highly restricted) than in the US. I don't know a single glider pilot who doesn't think that power flying is just plain dull. Certainly useful, but nevertheless dull. |
#77
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Short Wings Gliders
Udo Rumpf wrote:
How much of that $4500.00 was in tow? Roughly said: We have a flat member fee of roughly $2000 which includes everything except tows. So the rest was obviously the tows. |
#78
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Short Wings Gliders
How much of that $4500.00 was in tow?
Roughly said: We have a flat rate member fee of roughly $2000 which includes everything except tows. So the rest was obviously the tows. I forgot to add: Our tow fees are pretty high, we actually earn money with the tows which helps keep the flat rate fee down. |
#79
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Short Wings Gliders SW HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS
At 21:30 30 January 2009, Brian Bange wrote:
At my club we had 9 short wing gliders last season. .....I can tell you this group of newbies does not want to spend time getting their noses rubbed in the dirt by a bunch of super pilots flying super ships. If you want them them to go to a race IMHO, make it more like a camp or a mentoring program and hold it separately from the longer wing competitions. Lots of us just want to go fly with like minded friends. LESS THEN 10 PCT OF GLIDER PILOTS COMPETE! THE USED MARKET IS FILLED BY THE GLIDERS THEY SOLD.... THOSE GLIDERS WERE DESIGNED TO WIN, OF COURSE!!! Some will feel competitive, many will attend just to learn and build stick time. I really think we need to look at this in a whole new way to make it successful. Low stress, high fun factor. I can tell you that within our club, we have doubled the number of X/C pilots in the last 5 years. X/C has really come alive because of the short wings. Brian WERE THOSE SHORT WINGS GLIDERS DESIGNED FOR FUN AND SAFE FLIGHTS? OR WERE DESIGNED TO WIN IN THE NEW FAI CLASS: THE SHORT WINGS HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS |
#80
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Short Wings Gliders SW HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS
WERE THOSE SHORT WINGS GLIDERS DESIGNED FOR FUN
AND SAFE FLIGHTS? OR WERE DESIGNED TO WIN IN THE NEW FAI CLASS: THE SHORT WINGS HIGH FUN LOW STRESS CLASS Most all were a product of the FAI's initiative to find a World Class ship. I believe one requirement was that they were designed to be easy to fly. In my experience with the Russia, PW5 and L-33, they are. I believe all the FAI is trying to do is include these ships into the World Class and handicap it, so as to grow the class. If something new and more competitive comes along, it will have to live under it's handicap, so where is the advantage to making something that is hard to handle? Brian |
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