Is it colder at the approach end of the runway?

My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.


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Chris W wrote:
maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Make that "straight"
--
Chris W
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Chris W writes:

My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them.

I would not have thought of that, but it's certainly plausible. Aircraft
produce a massive downwash of air behind them that (at least in theory) drifts
downward until it encounters the ground. In the case of aircraft very near
the surface (as during landing and take-off), it's entirely possible that they
might produce gentle downdrafts of colder air that reach the ground. I think
it would take fairly constant traffic using the runway to make a clear
difference, though.

It's a bit like the constant wind that one often feels by the side of a
highway or major city street, always in the direction of traffic. Moving
vehicles do displace a lot of air.

He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Things like noise abatement and other concerns might obligate the airport to
work against the wind, at least if the wind speed is low enough (less than 10
knots or so).

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?

I think it's plausible.

Also, if the extended centerline is mostly open area (not buildings or roads),
that could make a difference as well. An open field is often colder than a
large building, because it absorbs solar energy less rapidly and retains it
less efficiently, and because it doesn't generate any heat of its own.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Chris W writes:

My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his
OAT in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then
it goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this
is because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and
bringing down some of it with them.

I would not have thought of that, but it's certainly plausible.
Aircraft produce a massive downwash of air behind them that (at least
in theory) drifts downward until it encounters the ground. In the
case of aircraft very near the surface (as during landing and
take-off), it's entirely possible that they might produce gentle
downdrafts of colder air that reach the ground. I think it would take
fairly constant traffic using the runway to make a clear difference,
though.

It's a bit like the constant wind that one often feels by the side of
a highway or major city street, always in the direction of traffic.
Moving vehicles do displace a lot of air.

He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be
landing from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but
it seems like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe
because it is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Things like noise abatement and other concerns might obligate the
airport to work against the wind, at least if the wind speed is low
enough (less than 10 knots or so).

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the
runway?

I think it's plausible.

You would, fjukktard.


Bertie

It is farther away from the built-up areas of the town, so
it is cooler. Houses make heat and so do factories.



|
| Chris W writes:
|
| My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every
day and his
| OAT in his car always goes a few degrees colder around
the where the
| extended centerline for the runways would intersect the
road. Then
| it goes right back up after he is through that area.
He thinks this
| is because the airplanes are descending from very cold
air and
| bringing down some of it with them.
|
| I would not have thought of that, but it's certainly
plausible.
| Aircraft produce a massive downwash of air behind them
that (at least
| in theory) drifts downward until it encounters the
ground. In the
| case of aircraft very near the surface (as during
landing and
| take-off), it's entirely possible that they might
produce gentle
| downdrafts of colder air that reach the ground. I think
it would take
| fairly constant traffic using the runway to make a clear
difference,
| though.
|
| It's a bit like the constant wind that one often feels
by the side of
| a highway or major city street, always in the direction
of traffic.
| Moving vehicles do displace a lot of air.
|
| He has noted that this isn't always the case
| but it often is. You would think most of the traffic
would be
| landing from the north since our winds are mostly from
the south, but
| it seems like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the
south, maybe
| because it is easier for the traffic from DFW to just
come strait in.
|
| Things like noise abatement and other concerns might
obligate the
| airport to work against the wind, at least if the wind
speed is low
| enough (less than 10 knots or so).
|
| Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that
the planes are
| causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end
of the
| runway?
|
| I think it's plausible.

"Chris W" wrote in message
...
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT in
his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the extended
centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it goes right
back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is because the
airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing down some of it
with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case but it often is.
You would think most of the traffic would be landing from the north since
our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems like I see a lot of
traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it is easier for the
traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway? I
guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.


Which airport in OKC???

Maybe an active localizer/glideslope signal is affecting the thermometer
components. Air does not "stick" to an airframe enough to change the ambient
temperature of a given area no matter how small.

Marco

"Chris W" wrote in message
...
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT in
his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the extended
centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it goes right
back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is because the
airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing down some of it
with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case but it often is.
You would think most of the traffic would be landing from the north since
our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems like I see a lot of
traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it is easier for the
traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway? I
guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

Chris W wrote:
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

I doubt it.

If airplanes were having an effect on air temperature, I would expect
it would be warmer from all the engine heat, just as freeways are
warmer then the adjacent area.

Most likely it is due to the local arrangement of "stuff" such as
asphalt, concrete, trees, grass, buildings, etc.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 2, 8:25 am, wrote:
Chris W wrote:
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.
Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

I doubt it.

If airplanes were having an effect on air temperature, I would expect
it would be warmer from all the engine heat, just as freeways are
warmer then the adjacent area.

Most likely it is due to the local arrangement of "stuff" such as
asphalt, concrete, trees, grass, buildings, etc.

I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

-Robert

On Apr 2, 12:09 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

It seems logical.

In New York City, it's always 6-8 degrees warmer at night than the
suburbs, supposedly because of the heat held by the buildings.

Cheers,
Kev