General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:13:58 -0400, George Z. Bush wrote:

When it was originally introduced into our country, it was a sort of
anthem of South Africa's black "freedom fighters", hence my equating it
with racism.

It wasn't introduced into America, it originated here. "Kumbya" is from
the Gullah dialect of South Carolina and means "come by here."

--

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

From: Jim Yanik


(WalterM140) wrote in
The Republican congressman on Meet the Press (can't remember his name) said
it was a 130 mm mortar shell, but no matter.

Well,Iraq used mainly Soviet weaponry,so it could have been a 152mm
artillery round.

Probably a 155 though. At least as late as the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was using
artillery designed by Gerold Bull that was built in South Africa. The guns were
155mm and were designated as the G5 model.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/g5.htm

I am not completely sure how many of these survived operation Desert Storm
however, but Iraqi designers were most probably designing rounds to fit that
particular gun.
Dave

George Z. Bush wrote:

direct that remark to me. IAC, your use of the "Kumbaya" crack was clearly
racist if unintended, and I thought somewhat beneath you. You surely know
perfectly well that "Kumbaya" is a black South African folk song and introducing
it into the discussion didn't seem warranted to me.

I think you've wandered "off the reservation" again on this (if you'll
excuse the racist idiom).

Perhaps holding hands to sing "Give Peace A Chance", or "Blowin' In
The Wind" might have been better musical selections?


SMH

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...
George came out with:
IAC, your use of the "Kumbaya" crack was clearly
racist if unintended, and I thought somewhat beneath you. You surely
know
perfectly well that "Kumbaya" is a black South African folk song and
introducing

Come on George, "Kumbaya" was learned by more people in the US as a
church
camp
or peace activist song. Most of us learned it without the racial intent
that
you propose. Southern Baptist or Methodist church camps in the 50's
would not
allow a black song. I doubt that Ed learned it in a peace demonstration
either,
unless he was the guy in back wearing a mask and wig.

I see your point. I was looking at it from my own vantage point, having
first
heard it at a time when apartheid was alive and well in South Africa and
when it
represented their black citizens who were struggling for some measure of
equality there at the time. When it was originally introduced into our
country,
it was a sort of anthem of South Africa's black "freedom fighters", hence
my
equating it with racism. It was not a song of peaceniks at that time.

What? You might want to look into the history of that song a bit more before
you make yourself out to be a larger horse's posterior than you already
have--just about every utterance you have made in regards to that tune has
been demonstrably *wrong*.


However, as I said, I see your point and concede that Ed may have used it
in the
same context you did.

Sounds like you would be about the only fellow using it in any other
context, being as your description of the song's lineage has been apparently
created solely in your own mind. Reference:

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Kumbayah

It is of American origin, and was a common camp song for decades--heck, we
used to sing it on long trips in the car when I was a little brat back in
the early sixties. Where you came up with the idea that "when it was
originally introduced into our country..." etc. is a mystery.

Brooks


George Z.

Oxmoron1
MFE

Yeff wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:13:58 -0400, George Z. Bush wrote:

When it was originally introduced into our country, it was a sort of
anthem of South Africa's black "freedom fighters", hence my equating it
with racism.

It wasn't introduced into America, it originated here. "Kumbya" is from
the Gullah dialect of South Carolina and means "come by here."

Some people, like you, claim it originated from the Gullah people of South
Carolina, others claim its origin is from Angola and/or Nigeria. I just say
that the first time I heard it, it was introduced as a folk song from South
Africa. I don't know which story is the right one, so you stick to your story
if you want.....I'll stick to mine.

George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Yeff wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:13:58 -0400, George Z. Bush wrote:

When it was originally introduced into our country, it was a sort of
anthem of South Africa's black "freedom fighters", hence my equating it
with racism.

It wasn't introduced into America, it originated here. "Kumbya" is from
the Gullah dialect of South Carolina and means "come by here."

Some people, like you, claim it originated from the Gullah people of
South
Carolina, others claim its origin is from Angola and/or Nigeria. I just
say
that the first time I heard it, it was introduced as a folk song from
South
Africa. I don't know which story is the right one, so you stick to your
story
if you want.....I'll stick to mine.

Nothing new about you sticking to the wrong story...

"And of course there's kumbayah. According to ethnomusicologist Thomas
Miller, the song we know began as a Gullah spiritual. Some recordings of it
were made in the 1920s, but no doubt it goes back earlier. Published
versions began appearing in the 1930s. It's believed an American missionary
couple taught the song to the locals in Angola, where its origins were
forgotten. The song was then rediscovered in Angola and brought back here in
time for the folksinging revival of the 50s and 60s."

www.straightdope.com/classics/a980911a.html

Also, note that Angola is not South Africa?

Brooks


George Z.

Zinni, Clark, Clarke, Clinton, Gore, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum ad vomitum.

To hear them now spouting off about the current effort to clean up their
mess is indeed quite "ironical," isn't it? I mean, like Jamie Gorelick
spoutning off about intelligence failures because the FBI and CIA didn't
share enough information . . .

TWILIGHT ZONE!

Steve Swartz


They weren't arrogant and stupid enough to invade Iraq.

"Bush arguably has committed the greatest strategic blunder in modern memory.
To put it bluntly, he attacked the wrong target. While he boasts of removing
Saddam Hussein from power, he did far more than that. He decapitated the
government of a country that was not directly threatening the United States
and, in so doing, bogged down a huge percentage of our military in a region
that never has known peace. Our military is being forced to trade away its
maneuverability in the wider war against terrorism while being placed on the
defensive in a single country that never will fully accept its presence."

-- James Webb

You do understand that when you change the subject (as with this
sub-thread), most of us assume you are ceding the original point.

Which was what?

Just
thought I'd remind you.

Just thought I'd remind -you- that the Bush administration is arrogant and
incompetent.

George Bush Jr. is the -worst- president we've ever had.

Walt

Now, all that being said, just who the **** are you to tell me how to
act?

Gee, Ed. It's a newsgroup.

You came on my thread and spouted a bunch of crap in no way supported by the
available evidence.

Don't forget to direct your class to this thread.

The Bush administration is arrogant and incompetent. Bush is the -worst-
president we've -ever- had.

Walt

Ed allows:

I have no trouble with my opinions or my actions. I don't have a clue
who you are nor how you might be justified to comment on my positions
on the issues.

I could say the same thing about you, couldn't I, Ed?

I'm a veteran too. I was on Desert Storm.

But you don't have to be a veteran, or even an American, to see that we have
5,000 casualties because of the arrogant, maladroit actions of the Bush
administration.

Now I've cited General Zinni of course. He cites Former General and National
Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft, former Centcom Commander Norman Schwarzkopf,
former NATO Commander Wesley Clark, and former Army Chief of Staff Eric
Shinseki.

I also cited James Webb. I'd say altogether I've made a pretty good case. Bush
and his minions are incompetent.

We have guys dying in Iraq due --directly-- to their incompetence.

You're blowing that off.

Now you may have some emotional attachment to Bush, you probably voted for him.
But it's time to wake up. I was for the war. I've always thought Bush just a
puppet. He sounds like a retard to me. But I knew that Cheney and Powell were
savvy and experienced. But what we have is a -disaster-.

It's a catastrophe, just like former VP Gore said.

What's also plain as day is that the good name of the United States has been
dragged through the mud by the Bush administration.

As you probably know, the White Counsel wrote for Bush two years ago a paper in
which he said we could (secretly of course) dispense with the Geneva
Convention.

Bush is in charge, and oh yes, he is definitely responsible. He's practically
a criminal.

Don't forget to direct your poly sci class to this thread.

I've got a long career of service to country and have
no need to apologize for anything.

Oh, yes you do. You need to apologize for this fantasy rant that excuses the
Bush admnistration.

Robert E. Lee had a long career of service too. But he chucked it and went with
the traitors. Not to compare you to Lee. "Dick" Cheney has a long career of
service. He's practically a criminal too.

General Zinni is entitled to his position on the situation, but it
doesn't determine mine and if we disagree it doesn't mean I don't care
for folks in uniform.

Your position is --so-- not based in fact, that I respectfully disagree.

As for the war on terror, it leads me to recall Sean Connery's
comments in "The Untouchables". Let me roughly paraphrase. If you
threaten me, I will hurt you. If you threaten my family, I will kill
you. If you threaten my nation, I will kill you by the thousands.

Whooo hoooo.

Too bad Iraq was the wrong target, huh?

It's as if in "The Untouchables" that Ness had set up his ambush to catch the
mob bringing in bootleg liquor from Canada --- somewhere near El Paso.

I
will determine the level of force used and it will be decisive,
possibly even viewed as extreme, but I will win. I know too well the
cost of gradualism in a war.

Iraq was the wrong target. Ask General Zinni. Ask James Webb.

America was attacked. We identified the source of the attack--the
terrorist organization responsible.

Which had nothing to do with Iraq. Atacking Iraq was the worst strategic
blunder in memory.

We didn't lob a few cruise
missiles from afar, destroy an aspirin factory and go back to the
hallway adjacent to the Oval Office with our intern. We rolled up our
sleeves and took on the thankless task of rooting the *******s out.

As General Zinni has indicated, containment worked. At least the Clinton
administration didn't generate 5,000 battle casualties -- and several thousand
civilian deaths --- unlike the disastrous and maladroit Bush administration.
They didn't trust Chalabi. They didn't manufacture from whole cloth an excuse
to go to war.

And don't forget:

LONDON - The U.S.-led war on terror has produced the most sustained attack on
human rights and international law in 50 years, Amnesty International said in
its annual report Wednesday.

Irene Khan, secretary general of the human rights group, condemned terrorist
assaults by groups such as al-Qaida, saying they posed a threat to security
around the world.

But she criticized the response of the U.S.-led "coalition of the willing,"
saying its powerful governments were ignoring international laws by sacrificing
human rights in the "blind pursuit" of security.

"The global security agenda promoted by the U.S. administration is bankrupt of
vision and bereft of principle," Khan said in a statement. "Violating rights at
home, turning a blind eye to abuses abroad, and using pre-emptive military
force where and when it chooses have damaged justice and freedom, and made the
world a more dangerous place."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...p_on_re_eu/bri
tain_amnesty_report_1

Be sure and direct your class to this thread, Ed.

That's "bankrupt of vision and bereft of principle," in case you missed it.

Bush is the -worst- president we've ever had, and the blood of those service
people killed in Iraq is -red- on his hands.

Walt