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Questions/Comments about OGN



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 21st 20, 09:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Al McNamara[_4_]
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Posts: 13
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

At 21:11 21 January 2020, wrote:
I'm talking about OGN. A SPOT, InReach, can already do this. (Another
device I forgot to mention.) I dunno... it just seems like a solution
looking for a problem.

It's a system that is cheap and easy to enable, and works incredibly well.
The rest of the world got on and did it years ago; the US continues to
pontificate. In Europe it's hard to imagine gliding without it.

Ads
  #12  
Old January 21st 20, 10:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 457
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 11:10:39 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
I am interested in the Open Glider Network (OGN) work with a possible implementation around the Chicago area. See http://wiki.glidernet.org/ for details. You can see tracked objects at http://live.glidernet.org. As you can imagine not much going on right now on January 20th - except around Santiago Chile where 10 gliders are lining up with 3 tow planes (including two ASW-29's from Germany!).

A couple of comments and questions;

- The US lags far behind in OGN implementation with only 6 sites (Albuquerque, Williams, Minden, Moriarty, Edgewood and Lake Placid). We are tied with Namibia (!) and are behind Canada (8 sites). For comparison Germany has 281 and UK has 166 sites.

- Region 11 PASCO (Pacific Soaring Council) mentioned in March of 2019 that they were implementing OGN in the region (see their Yahoo Group thread below). Looks like Williams has been implemented. What other sites are in the works?

- Has OGN been used at some contests/regattas/events? If so, which?

- On http://wiki.glidernet.org/ there is this comment, "At the moment you already can see beacons from PilotAware, SPOT, Garmin InReach, Skymaster, FANET (paragliders) and Spidertracks circulating through our network." (plus FLARM of course). Does this mean that **ALL** the heavily used soaring SPOT and InReach trackers are showing up on all the OGN tracking sites?

- What is the typical cost to implement an OGN site?

- What is the typical range of an OGN site? Assumming flat terrain and an antenna on top of a typical hangar.

- What is the primary motivation for OGN? Watching contests in "real" time? Safety? In cockpit use?

Thanks,
John OHM Ω

==================================================

From: PASCO - Pacific Soaring Council, Inc
Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 8:58 AM
Subject: Morgan, Region 11 OGN Fund Announcement

OGN Fund Announcement

To PASCO SSA Region 11,

PASCO is pleased to announce the creation of a fund to support the
installation of Open Glider Network (OGN) receiver stations throughout our
soaring region (SSA Region 11). The approved budget for this enterprise is
$2,000 over two years. The funds are expressly for the purpose of covering
material expenses required to build the receiver stations for the creation
of a Region 11 OGN network. The initial target coverage areas for the OGN
network are the most commonly used soaring cross country routes.

Creation of this OGN network will enhance the visibility and safety of
soaring in Region 11. OGN receiver stations provide not only real time
position reports and flight tracks of FLARM equipped gliders to computers
and mobile devices with internet connections, but also provide real time
data that could support search and retrieve/rescue operations. If you are
not familiar with the OGN network log into glidertracker.org and you will
see all aircraft that have registered and transmitting FLARM devices. You
will note heavy application of this technology in Europe and PASCO is
actively supporting its introduction in our region.

Project Coordinator: PASCO member Philip Lee has
volunteered to lead the project of planning, building and installation of
OGN receivers at key locations throughout Region 11. Philip designed,
constructed and installed the first OGN receiver station in our region at Williams, CA and will coordinate the initial rollout of OGN receivers in Region 11, prioritizing heavily-trafficked glider airspace. He is your best resource
for starting your own build project and suggesting additional station
locations.

PASCO requests that all individuals contact Philip Lee prior to
construction of a new OGN receiver station to avoid duplication of station
locations or significant overlapping coverage areas. Please coordinate your
projects with Philip or volunteer to take on a receiver build and
installation for a specific location. Any help will be greatly appreciated
by the entire soaring community as the benefit is great.

To Request Reimbursement for OGN receiver station material costs: Submit
copies of receipts and the intended location for the OGN receiver
station(s) that you built via email to .

Regards,
Dan Colton
President, Pacific Soaring Council


John, as you well know, I'm flying on every day of the season around N. IL when the weather is decent and I can get a towpilot. On any given day, there may be 3-5 gliders between our 3 clubs here on a x-country. Often I'm the only one. I can see no purpose for an OGN network to be implemented at probably considerable cost. Let's focus instead on promoting x-country flying. If you are looking for me, I'll let you have my InReach page address and you get a trace in 10' intervall. This hole subject is a total non-starter for me.

Herb
  #13  
Old January 21st 20, 10:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

On Tuesday, 21 January 2020 21:11:58 UTC, wrote:
I'm talking about OGN. A SPOT, InReach, can already do this. (Another device I forgot to mention.) I dunno... it just seems like a solution looking for a problem.


If Flarm is in the glider anyway, then tracking derived from it is nearly free, just the initial possibly shared cost of some ground stations.

People flying over more remote or mountainous areas will probably still like to have Spot or InReach, and/or PLB or ELT
  #14  
Old January 21st 20, 11:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Ruskin[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

I fly in the UK and in the Alps. We have good OGN coverage in both
places, and in both places all (Alps) or most (UK) cross country
gliders carry Flarm. I manage 20 receivers.

A primary benefit of OGN tracking is to make gliding more of a
spectator sport - so if you're not flying, you can see what other
people are doing or have done today. It gets used for most
competitions, with websites configured to show just the gliders in the
competition, with their relative position in the race. Much more
interesting for the spectators than just waiting for finishers. As an
additional benefit we get useful traffic data for conversations with the
regulators about airspace.

My club, and many others, also use it for logging gliders and tugs up
and down, improving the accuracy of otherwise hand-recorded logs.

As an instructor, it's very useful being able to look on the club
website and see where all the gliders that launched from the club are
at the end of the day - whether home, local or still remote. Even
down to which field they landed out in.

In the Alps it has proved very useful for S&R in the event that a crash
has occurred. Also in the Alps, there are a number of mountaintop
receivers with solar power supplies (not within the $250 budget
mentioned later though).

In the UK there's a parallel system to Flarm, called PilotAware, which
is like Flarm for GA aircraft. An extension of the OGN system
rebroadcasts Flarm signals to PilotAware equipped aircraft. That
system is being extended to include multi-laterated transponder
signals.

The backend of the system is opensource and integrates targets from
a number of systems including OGN (Flarm), PilotAware and others.
So all that traffic data is available. There are several websites that
make use of that data, presented in different ways.

Typical cost of a receiver is in the order of $250. Range can be high -
100km or more - it's pretty much line of sight - but you get much
better results with receivers on a grid around 30km depending on
terrain - then you get multiple receivers picking up an aircraft.
Ground stations are best with decent antennas mounted high and
clear of buildings.

All in all, it's been an extremely successful example of building on
some existing technologies (ie Flarm) to provide a lot of additional
functionality.

Paul




  #15  
Old January 22nd 20, 01:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 230
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 4:04:12 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 11:10:39 AM UTC-6, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
I am interested in the Open Glider Network (OGN) work with a possible implementation around the Chicago area. See http://wiki.glidernet.org/ for details. You can see tracked objects at http://live.glidernet.org. As you can imagine not much going on right now on January 20th - except around Santiago Chile where 10 gliders are lining up with 3 tow planes (including two ASW-29's from Germany!).

A couple of comments and questions;

- The US lags far behind in OGN implementation with only 6 sites (Albuquerque, Williams, Minden, Moriarty, Edgewood and Lake Placid). We are tied with Namibia (!) and are behind Canada (8 sites). For comparison Germany has 281 and UK has 166 sites.

- Region 11 PASCO (Pacific Soaring Council) mentioned in March of 2019 that they were implementing OGN in the region (see their Yahoo Group thread below). Looks like Williams has been implemented. What other sites are in the works?

- Has OGN been used at some contests/regattas/events? If so, which?

- On http://wiki.glidernet.org/ there is this comment, "At the moment you already can see beacons from PilotAware, SPOT, Garmin InReach, Skymaster, FANET (paragliders) and Spidertracks circulating through our network." (plus FLARM of course). Does this mean that **ALL** the heavily used soaring SPOT and InReach trackers are showing up on all the OGN tracking sites?

- What is the typical cost to implement an OGN site?

- What is the typical range of an OGN site? Assumming flat terrain and an antenna on top of a typical hangar.

- What is the primary motivation for OGN? Watching contests in "real" time? Safety? In cockpit use?

Thanks,
John OHM Ω

==================================================

From: PASCO - Pacific Soaring Council, Inc
Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 8:58 AM
Subject: Morgan, Region 11 OGN Fund Announcement

OGN Fund Announcement

To PASCO SSA Region 11,

PASCO is pleased to announce the creation of a fund to support the
installation of Open Glider Network (OGN) receiver stations throughout our
soaring region (SSA Region 11). The approved budget for this enterprise is
$2,000 over two years. The funds are expressly for the purpose of covering
material expenses required to build the receiver stations for the creation
of a Region 11 OGN network. The initial target coverage areas for the OGN
network are the most commonly used soaring cross country routes.

Creation of this OGN network will enhance the visibility and safety of
soaring in Region 11. OGN receiver stations provide not only real time
position reports and flight tracks of FLARM equipped gliders to computers
and mobile devices with internet connections, but also provide real time
data that could support search and retrieve/rescue operations. If you are
not familiar with the OGN network log into glidertracker.org and you will
see all aircraft that have registered and transmitting FLARM devices. You
will note heavy application of this technology in Europe and PASCO is
actively supporting its introduction in our region.

Project Coordinator: PASCO member Philip Lee has
volunteered to lead the project of planning, building and installation of
OGN receivers at key locations throughout Region 11. Philip designed,
constructed and installed the first OGN receiver station in our region at Williams, CA and will coordinate the initial rollout of OGN receivers in Region 11, prioritizing heavily-trafficked glider airspace. He is your best resource
for starting your own build project and suggesting additional station
locations.

PASCO requests that all individuals contact Philip Lee prior to
construction of a new OGN receiver station to avoid duplication of station
locations or significant overlapping coverage areas. Please coordinate your
projects with Philip or volunteer to take on a receiver build and
installation for a specific location. Any help will be greatly appreciated
by the entire soaring community as the benefit is great.

To Request Reimbursement for OGN receiver station material costs: Submit
copies of receipts and the intended location for the OGN receiver
station(s) that you built via email to .

Regards,
Dan Colton
President, Pacific Soaring Council


John, as you well know, I'm flying on every day of the season around N. IL when the weather is decent and I can get a towpilot. On any given day, there may be 3-5 gliders between our 3 clubs here on a x-country. Often I'm the only one. I can see no purpose for an OGN network to be implemented at probably considerable cost. Let's focus instead on promoting x-country flying. If you are looking for me, I'll let you have my InReach page address and you get a trace in 10' intervall. This hole subject is a total non-starter for me.

Herb


Herb, count me as well, beginning this coming season. So there will be two of us. And seeing us two soaring (thanks to the OGN), there will be more pilots joining us, including x-country flying. I fully support building-up the OGN network in the Chicagoland area (and willing to help setting it up). Sorry (regret) couldn't attend the presentation last Monday at the Schaumburg Airport.
  #16  
Old January 22nd 20, 06:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,039
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

Can you see historical tracks or only current?

On 1/21/2020 4:43 PM, Paul Ruskin wrote:
I fly in the UK and in the Alps. We have good OGN coverage in both
places, and in both places all (Alps) or most (UK) cross country
gliders carry Flarm. I manage 20 receivers.

A primary benefit of OGN tracking is to make gliding more of a
spectator sport - so if you're not flying, you can see what other
people are doing or have done today. It gets used for most
competitions, with websites configured to show just the gliders in the
competition, with their relative position in the race. Much more
interesting for the spectators than just waiting for finishers. As an
additional benefit we get useful traffic data for conversations with the
regulators about airspace.

My club, and many others, also use it for logging gliders and tugs up
and down, improving the accuracy of otherwise hand-recorded logs.

As an instructor, it's very useful being able to look on the club
website and see where all the gliders that launched from the club are
at the end of the day - whether home, local or still remote. Even
down to which field they landed out in.

In the Alps it has proved very useful for S&R in the event that a crash
has occurred. Also in the Alps, there are a number of mountaintop
receivers with solar power supplies (not within the $250 budget
mentioned later though).

In the UK there's a parallel system to Flarm, called PilotAware, which
is like Flarm for GA aircraft. An extension of the OGN system
rebroadcasts Flarm signals to PilotAware equipped aircraft. That
system is being extended to include multi-laterated transponder
signals.

The backend of the system is opensource and integrates targets from
a number of systems including OGN (Flarm), PilotAware and others.
So all that traffic data is available. There are several websites that
make use of that data, presented in different ways.

Typical cost of a receiver is in the order of $250. Range can be high -
100km or more - it's pretty much line of sight - but you get much
better results with receivers on a grid around 30km depending on
terrain - then you get multiple receivers picking up an aircraft.
Ground stations are best with decent antennas mounted high and
clear of buildings.

All in all, it's been an extremely successful example of building on
some existing technologies (ie Flarm) to provide a lot of additional
functionality.

Paul





--
Dan, 5J
  #17  
Old January 22nd 20, 11:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Ruskin[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

At 18:46 22 January 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
Can you see historical tracks or only current?

--
Dan, 5J


Hi Dan

By general agreement history is limited on the public display
websites to the current day. My club has the last three days of
club glider tracks for logged in members. Longer is stored in a
couple of places for S&R, system management and statistical
purposes.

Paul

  #18  
Old January 23rd 20, 12:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,039
Default Questions/Comments about OGN

Thanks!

On 1/22/2020 4:38 PM, Paul Ruskin wrote:
At 18:46 22 January 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
Can you see historical tracks or only current?

--
Dan, 5J

Hi Dan

By general agreement history is limited on the public display
websites to the current day. My club has the last three days of
club glider tracks for logged in members. Longer is stored in a
couple of places for S&R, system management and statistical
purposes.

Paul


--
Dan, 5J
 




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