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#51
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ORCA lower than MEA?
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:09:40 -0800, Sam Spade wrote:
I haven't done it in a long time myself. I did have LA Center a couple times way back when say "Unable to approve VFR on top at the requested altitude.." So, since On Top is an amendment to an IFR clearance I think they can make whatever they choose out of their responsibilities with on On-Top amendment to your IFR clearance. Some controllers or facilities, particularly a mountain-area center, might reasonably be very unconfortable with the IFR flight plan aspect of the aircraft being below MIA or MEA. No doubt. Here in the NE I've only used OTP to get through an overcast. And my usual clearance would be basically out of the 7110.65. Something like: CLIMB TO AND REPORT REACHING VFR-ON-TOP, NO TOPS REPORTS. IF NOT ON TOP AT 7000', MAINTAIN 7000', AND ADVISE. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#52
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ORCA lower than MEA?
Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:09:40 -0800, Sam Spade wrote: I haven't done it in a long time myself. I did have LA Center a couple times way back when say "Unable to approve VFR on top at the requested altitude.." So, since On Top is an amendment to an IFR clearance I think they can make whatever they choose out of their responsibilities with on On-Top amendment to your IFR clearance. Some controllers or facilities, particularly a mountain-area center, might reasonably be very unconfortable with the IFR flight plan aspect of the aircraft being below MIA or MEA. No doubt. Here in the NE I've only used OTP to get through an overcast. And my usual clearance would be basically out of the 7110.65. Something like: CLIMB TO AND REPORT REACHING VFR-ON-TOP, NO TOPS REPORTS. IF NOT ON TOP AT 7000', MAINTAIN 7000', AND ADVISE. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Picking at nits, that is a clearance to on top, as opposed to modifying an en route IFR clearance from an assigned altitude to en route on top. In the former you are excepted to cancel reaching on top. What you do is a very common practice around here in terminal airspace, and always has an altitude assignment at, or above MVA. I suppose it could be done with a center at an airport where they provide terminal service. Never done that (always files a full en route IFR flight plan out of such airports; PRB coming to mind where I have done that a lot. |
#53
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ORCA lower than MEA?
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:55:42 -0800, Sam Spade wrote:
Ron Rosenfeld wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:09:40 -0800, Sam Spade wrote: I haven't done it in a long time myself. I did have LA Center a couple times way back when say "Unable to approve VFR on top at the requested altitude.." So, since On Top is an amendment to an IFR clearance I think they can make whatever they choose out of their responsibilities with on On-Top amendment to your IFR clearance. Some controllers or facilities, particularly a mountain-area center, might reasonably be very unconfortable with the IFR flight plan aspect of the aircraft being below MIA or MEA. No doubt. Here in the NE I've only used OTP to get through an overcast. And my usual clearance would be basically out of the 7110.65. Something like: CLIMB TO AND REPORT REACHING VFR-ON-TOP, NO TOPS REPORTS. IF NOT ON TOP AT 7000', MAINTAIN 7000', AND ADVISE. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Picking at nits, that is a clearance to on top, as opposed to modifying an en route IFR clearance from an assigned altitude to en route on top. In the former you are excepted to cancel reaching on top. What you do is a very common practice around here in terminal airspace, and always has an altitude assignment at, or above MVA. I suppose it could be done with a center at an airport where they provide terminal service. Never done that (always files a full en route IFR flight plan out of such airports; PRB coming to mind where I have done that a lot. You're correct, of course. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#54
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ORCA lower than MEA?
Sam Spade wrote: And my usual clearance would be basically out of the 7110.65. Something like: CLIMB TO AND REPORT REACHING VFR-ON-TOP, NO TOPS REPORTS. IF NOT ON TOP AT 7000', MAINTAIN 7000', AND ADVISE. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Picking at nits, that is a clearance to on top, as opposed to modifying an en route IFR clearance from an assigned altitude to en route on top. In the former you are excepted to cancel reaching on top. Not true. If you have to climb thru the clouds and desire to cruise with an OTP clearance this is exactly what you'd get. The 7000 is probably the top of the controllers airspace or a necessary altitude to separate you from traffic. A place like southern California sometimes develops a routine where they get a clearance like you suggest so they can climb thru the marine layer. |
#55
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ORCA lower than MEA?
Newps wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: And my usual clearance would be basically out of the 7110.65. Something like: CLIMB TO AND REPORT REACHING VFR-ON-TOP, NO TOPS REPORTS. IF NOT ON TOP AT 7000', MAINTAIN 7000', AND ADVISE. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Picking at nits, that is a clearance to on top, as opposed to modifying an en route IFR clearance from an assigned altitude to en route on top. In the former you are excepted to cancel reaching on top. Not true. If you have to climb thru the clouds and desire to cruise with an OTP clearance this is exactly what you'd get. The 7000 is probably the top of the controllers airspace or a necessary altitude to separate you from traffic. A place like southern California sometimes develops a routine where they get a clearance like you suggest so they can climb thru the marine layer. In Southern California and all other stratus-laden areas of California, which are in TRACON airspace, the assignment is alway at, or above MVA, and predicated on recent pilot reports. It is not possible (at least in these parts) to continue such a clearance as an IFR, VFR-on top without an IFR flight plan. If there was an IFR flight plan there would usually not be a clearance to on-top. Are you saying if, for example I am departing BIL, and without a flight plan I request a climb to on top, and then when on top I request on-top to Salt Lake City, you would grant it? |
#56
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ORCA lower than MEA?
Sam Spade wrote: In Southern California and all other stratus-laden areas of California, which are in TRACON airspace, the assignment is alway at, or above MVA, and predicated on recent pilot reports. It is not possible (at least in these parts) to continue such a clearance as an IFR, VFR-on top without an IFR flight plan. If there was an IFR flight plan there would usually not be a clearance to on-top. Are you saying if, for example I am departing BIL, and without a flight plan I request a climb to on top, and then when on top I request on-top to Salt Lake City, you would grant it? Of course. It would be nicer if you had already filed a flight plan to SLC because then I can just change the altitude in the computer to OTP, but I can always quickly enter the flight plan. Our cargo guys here have prefiled IFR flight plans. Whenever they can they go OTP and they often tell us they are OTP as they are taxiing out. So we never give them a hard altitude but simply "maintain VFR OTP". This works because most days are just like today, not a cloud in the sky. |
#57
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ORCA lower than MEA?
Newps wrote:
Of course. It would be nicer if you had already filed a flight plan to SLC because then I can just change the altitude in the computer to OTP, but I can always quickly enter the flight plan. Our cargo guys here have prefiled IFR flight plans. Whenever they can they go OTP and they often tell us they are OTP as they are taxiing out. So we never give them a hard altitude but simply "maintain VFR OTP". This works because most days are just like today, not a cloud in the sky. That is great service and almost certainly limited to a small TRACON surrounded by miles of sparsely used (at least low-altitude) airspace. It wouldn't get anywhere with SoCal Super-TRACON. They have the "tower-to-tower" routes that will get you from San Diego to Santa Barbara, and airport pairs between. They would expect me to use that canned service. If I want to go further than that they would expect a pre-filed flight plan. I have never tried but I suspect SoCal would not grant an OTP request on a "tower-to-tower" route. I am not sure they would ever grant a level-flight OPT in any circumstances. They would probably say something to the effect, "make your on-top request to Los Angeles Center. ZLA, of course, would usually grant the request. But, in a light aircraft you don't get to talk to ZLA until your out of the huge metro basin. |
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