On pre-flight inspections

On Jul 31, 10:46*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article
,

*a wrote:
For what it's worth, I learned something back when cars had manual
transmissions. I was taught to never hold the shifter, but to move it
or 'slap' it in the right direction with an an open hand. *On my
Mooney, the gear switch looks like a wheel, it would be easy to grasp
it -- I never do. Down means pushing it down with my finger tips, , up
means lifting it up with them.

So far it's worked, but there's always tomorrow!

Sensible when you can do it, but not workable for manual gear levers.
The gear lever in my plane is a direct linkage requiring a significant
amount of force, and so I have no choice but to grab it strongly. Worse,
the lever's travel is fore-and-aft, making it extremely non-obvious
which end corresponds to up and which to down!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

I've never experienced it, but there must be a huge amount of ground
effect float in something like a Mooney as it sinks that close to the
ground with the gear up -- it would go well with that sinking feeling
of OMG, wouldn't it?

The only manual gear retraction airplane I flew was a Mooney Ranger
(M20C), and that thing we called a Joe bar made gear position pretty
obvious.

On Aug 1, 7:04*am, a wrote:
On Jul 31, 10:46*pm, Mike Ash wrote:



In article
,

*a wrote:
For what it's worth, I learned something back when cars had manual
transmissions. I was taught to never hold the shifter, but to move it
or 'slap' it in the right direction with an an open hand. *On my
Mooney, the gear switch looks like a wheel, it would be easy to grasp
it -- I never do. Down means pushing it down with my finger tips, , up
means lifting it up with them.

So far it's worked, but there's always tomorrow!

Sensible when you can do it, but not workable for manual gear levers.
The gear lever in my plane is a direct linkage requiring a significant
amount of force, and so I have no choice but to grab it strongly. Worse,
the lever's travel is fore-and-aft, making it extremely non-obvious
which end corresponds to up and which to down!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

I've never experienced it, but there must be a huge amount of ground
effect float in something like a Mooney as it sinks that close to the
ground with the gear up -- it would go well with that sinking feeling
of OMG, wouldn't it?

The only manual gear retraction airplane I flew was a Mooney Ranger
(M20C), and that thing we called a Joe bar made gear position pretty
obvious.

We had a Mark 21 and a Mooney Mite on the line at different times and
flew them quite often. The trick with flying a Mooney is to be
consistent on approach and threshold speed. You arrive too fast
through the flare window and you can be in for a bit of a ride through
ground effect that uses a lot of room bleeding it on down through
touchdown.
Most (GOOD) Mooney drivers will stress the need to have the flare
speed right on the money as the "secret" to safe Mooney operations.
Dudley Henriques

In article
,
a wrote:

I've never experienced it, but there must be a huge amount of ground
effect float in something like a Mooney as it sinks that close to the
ground with the gear up -- it would go well with that sinking feeling
of OMG, wouldn't it?

Funny you mention that. My plane sits significantly lower to the ground
than just about everything else I'd flown before. Not too long after we
got it back from the shop after my partner's gear-up landing in it, I
was landing and had that "sinking feeling" you describe because I
couldn't quite remember just how low I should have been. A quick check
to the gear handle reassured me but this totally screwed up my flare and
I made a fairly embarrassing (but non-damaging) landing because of it.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

A few examples of what I've seen so far:


-) two springs missing that should have held exhaust pipes together.
instructor judged we could fly, though
-) fatigue cracks in a bracket that hold the oil cooler.
instructor judged we could fly, though
-) oil cooler still partially covered for the winter cold on a sunny
day
in May. instructor judged we could fly, though



Badly frayed cable on the horizontal stabilizer. AI caught it while
fueling
the aircraft. Showed it to the pilot who decided it would make back
home,
about 30 miles. AI actually begged his pax to stay behind. At about
200' on
take off the cable failed. Aircraft did a complete loop impacting the
ground
at about a 60 degree angle. Nothing left of the aircraft more than
knee
high. Engine buried about 2'. Pilot died instantly, but the pax with
all
broken bones, struggled for help for almost 5 minutes before expiring.



For a friend here.... he passed on 3 spinner cracks on a rental 172.

One crack was 1 1/2 in long.

They (others) continued to fly the aircraft for another week before
the spinner was removed.


All of these point out the old adage that incompetence is unaware
of itself. In the first cases, the instructor "judged we could fly."
Was the instructor a mechanic, too, or maybe en engineer, to make the
determination that broken or missing parts didn't affect the safety of
the aircraft? Designers and manufacturers don't typically spend money
on stuff that isn't necessary, and as far as cracks go, they don't
usually progress in a linear fashion. They can show up, travel slowly,
then the part can fail all at once as the metal ahead of the crack
reaches its fatigue point from the work-hardening that results when a
crack allows too much flexing. A cracked spinner can kill, and has
done so in the past. They've been known to come through the
windshield. Frayed cables might be ok for a while or might not, as the
instance given clearly demonstrates. Would the pilot of that airplane
have suspended himself thousands of feet above the earth using a
frayed cable? Probably not, be he did what amounted to the same thing.

If we're going to just say "it'll be OK," why bother with the
preflight in the first place?

There are the Five Hazardous Attitudes: Anti-Authority, Resignation,
Invulnerability, Macho, and Impulsivity. Under which one does the
"it'll be OK" fit? And if the law requires that the airplane be
airworthy before flight but we fly it with obvious defects anyway,
where does that fit?


See this:

http://www.pilotoutlook.com/instrume..._and_antidotes

I'll get flamed, for sure, but then you guys can place the flamer
somewhere in the Hazardous Attitude scale.


Dan

On Aug 1, 11:36*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
On Aug 1, 7:04*am, a wrote:



On Jul 31, 10:46*pm, Mike Ash wrote:

In article
,

*a wrote:
For what it's worth, I learned something back when cars had manual
transmissions. I was taught to never hold the shifter, but to move it
or 'slap' it in the right direction with an an open hand. *On my
Mooney, the gear switch looks like a wheel, it would be easy to grasp
it -- I never do. Down means pushing it down with my finger tips, , up
means lifting it up with them.

So far it's worked, but there's always tomorrow!

Sensible when you can do it, but not workable for manual gear levers.
The gear lever in my plane is a direct linkage requiring a significant
amount of force, and so I have no choice but to grab it strongly. Worse,
the lever's travel is fore-and-aft, making it extremely non-obvious
which end corresponds to up and which to down!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

I've never experienced it, but there must be a huge amount of ground
effect float in something like a Mooney as it sinks that close to the
ground with the gear up -- it would go well with that sinking feeling
of OMG, wouldn't it?

The only manual gear retraction airplane I flew was a Mooney Ranger
(M20C), and that thing we called a Joe bar made gear position pretty
obvious.

We had a Mark 21 and a Mooney Mite on the line at different times and
flew them quite often. The trick with flying a Mooney is to be
consistent on approach and threshold speed. You arrive too fast
through the flare window and you can be in for a bit of a ride through
ground effect that uses a lot of room bleeding it on down through
touchdown.
Most (GOOD) Mooney drivers will stress the need to have the flarefor
speed right on the money as the "secret" to safe Mooney operations.
Dudley Henriques

The laminar flow wing on the M20J's simply don't want to waste energy
and will float for a long time. It's a fun complex single to fly, and
others, like the Arrow or 182 R's seem rather more forgiving. Too many
SEL pilots carry too much energy into the flare -- or maybe not. It
gives them margins for nearly everything but short field operations.

The guys I fly with pride themselves on landings where the throttle,
from downwind onward thru turn off of the active only moves aft. Even
better is if the brakes aren't used until after the turn off as well.
There's no excuse in a light airplane like a Mooney to touch down on
the numbers when the turn you'll be taking from the active is 2000
feet down the runway.

During the final landing during a BFR my instructor asked for a touch
down on the numbers. I declined, offered the idea above as a better
demonstration of flying skill. He bought the reasoning.

wrote in message
...
A few examples of what I've seen so far:
-----------examples snipped for brevity----------

All of these point out the old adage that incompetence is unaware
of itself. In the first cases, the instructor "judged we could fly."
Was the instructor a mechanic, too, or maybe en engineer, to make the
determination that broken or missing parts didn't affect the safety of
the aircraft? Designers and manufacturers don't typically spend money
on stuff that isn't necessary, and as far as cracks go, they don't
usually progress in a linear fashion. They can show up, travel slowly,
then the part can fail all at once as the metal ahead of the crack
reaches its fatigue point from the work-hardening that results when a
crack allows too much flexing. A cracked spinner can kill, and has
done so in the past. They've been known to come through the
windshield. Frayed cables might be ok for a while or might not, as the
instance given clearly demonstrates. Would the pilot of that airplane
have suspended himself thousands of feet above the earth using a
frayed cable? Probably not, be he did what amounted to the same thing.

-----------more snipped----------
Dan

Back when there was a coffee shop, that had become a major hang-out for both
pilots and mechanics at my local airport, I once deferred a question to a
flight instructor who I knew to also be a certified A&E. The questioned was
a student pilot and I knew the correct answer; but really thought that it
should come from someone properly certified--and was utterly astounded by
the avalanche of poppycock that issued forth. I was so doumfounded that I
still can not recall the original question--half a dozen years later.

So, while I completely agree with your basic premise, I must also suggest
that any trust the general knowledge and good sense of a mechanic or
engineer should be evaluated as part of the decision whether to accept his
opinion or the products of his work!

I do know several mechanics who are darned good engineers, even though the
don't have engineering degrees, and also a couple of automotive mechanics
whose opinions I would gladly trust with regard to aircraft; but they are
not all created equal.

Peter

On Jul 26, 10:41*pm, D Ramapriya wrote:
Has any of you has ever discovered something during the pre-flight
inspection that necessitated a significant deferrment of your flight
plan or a cancelation altogether? Just curious, that's all.

Thanks,

Ramapriya

Yeah, mechanic told me the airplane would be ready Saturday morning.
Preflight revealed that airplane was still in pieces on his shop
floor.

Then there was the time a snow plow had clipped a tie down and pulled
a strut out of the wing.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Gene Seibel schreef:

Preflight revealed that airplane was still in pieces on his shop
floor.

That must have been an all-time record for a quick and decisive pre-flight!

D Ramapriya wrote:
Has any of you has ever discovered something during the pre-flight
inspection that necessitated a significant deferrment of your flight
plan or a cancelation altogether? Just curious, that's all.

Thanks,

Ramapriya

While doing the pre-flight before my PP checkride, the examiner said,
"Let me show you how to check for worn stabilator bushings". He grabbed
the end of the stabilator and moved it back and forth about an inch, and
then looked at me. I checked two other PA28s nearby, and there was no
play. It was two weeks before the airplane was back on line.

Another time, one oleo strut sprung a leak during pre-flight.

Curt