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#71
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:18:12 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote: "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message .. . Among some folks that I met at fighter lead-in training when I was instructing were Dino Martin (Dean's son) who was killed flying an F-4 into a mountain in California, and Ross Perot (son of Ross Perot) who flew F-4s for the TANG. Ed, when was Martin in LIFT? I saw a documentary recently on his dad, and it mentioned the son's accident. I had vague memories of it being in the news when it happened, but found little on the web about his ANG experience. Made me kind of curious as to his story (not all that many sons of the rich and famous saw fit to serve in the military during the early eighties). You know anything more about this? Brooks I was at LIFT from July '81 til June of '85. Dino came through in '83 and Perot in '84. Both were good guys with no attitude issues. Each was fully qualified, no double standard involved. Martin's accident occured during a radar trail departure in bad weather out of March AFB (IIRC). Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#72
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"D. Strang" wrote:
"Ron" wrote: A C-119 retardant tanker later crashed virtually on the exact site as Martins F-4C crash. But about 400 knots slower :-) Dino is pretty much a part of that mountain now. I think they found his jaw bone, and that's what they gave to his dad. Two or three years ago a friend of mine went straight into a farmer's tomato field in a "slow" ultralight. I landed next to the crash site and ran over to help but he was obviously deceased. His lifeless body literally conformed to the shape of the wreckage as all his blood had been drained out of his body and every bone had been shattered immediately upon impact. His remains appeared as if they had been painted onto the wreckage. Another friend who had experienced ground combat in Vietnam showed up and said he's never seen a human being that mangled up even on the battlefield, Suffice to say, it was a sight that I hope never to see again in this lifetime... If you're dead, you're dead; regardless if you auger in at 40 kts. or 400. |
#73
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:41:13 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: Martin's accident occured during a radar trail departure in bad weather out of March AFB (IIRC). George, I think, not March. There were F-4s at George but not at Marsh. He flew into the side of Mt San Antonio (Baldy) fairly near the top, as I recall. It took the recovery crews some time to find the site, I believe, because there had been no witnesses and they had to wait for the weather to clear. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#74
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On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:47:20 -0800, Mary Shafer
wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:41:13 -0700, Ed Rasimus wrote: Martin's accident occured during a radar trail departure in bad weather out of March AFB (IIRC). George, I think, not March. There were F-4s at George but not at Marsh. He flew into the side of Mt San Antonio (Baldy) fairly near the top, as I recall. It took the recovery crews some time to find the site, I believe, because there had been no witnesses and they had to wait for the weather to clear. Mary Dino was CANG, not USAF. He wasn't flying out of George. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#75
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:27:16 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:47:20 -0800, Mary Shafer wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:41:13 -0700, Ed Rasimus wrote: Martin's accident occured during a radar trail departure in bad weather out of March AFB (IIRC). George, I think, not March. There were F-4s at George but not at Marsh. He flew into the side of Mt San Antonio (Baldy) fairly near the top, as I recall. It took the recovery crews some time to find the site, I believe, because there had been no witnesses and they had to wait for the weather to clear. Mary Dino was CANG, not USAF. He wasn't flying out of George. I thought so, too, but the March site says he was a Reserve officer, not CANG. However, I now see that this isn't a .mil site, but a .org site, so maybe it's not as authoritative as I thought it was. OK, looking at the IMDB, It was San Gorgonio, not San Antonio. Which definitely says it wasn't George. That leaves March and CANG as pretty much the only options, just as you said. I probably got "George" from "Gorgonio". Just as an aside, Frank Sinatra's mother was killed when her chartered bizjet (a Lear, I think) hit the other side of San Gorgonio. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#76
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:11:49 -0800, Mary Shafer
wrote: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:27:16 -0700, Ed Rasimus wrote: Dino was CANG, not USAF. He wasn't flying out of George. I thought so, too, but the March site says he was a Reserve officer, not CANG. However, I now see that this isn't a .mil site, but a .org site, so maybe it's not as authoritative as I thought it was. An officer is either "regular" or "reserve". Typically an ANG officer would be commissioned in the reserve. It's a complicated throw-back system, and confusing to those who haven't lived under it. There really isn't any such thing as a National Guard officer--they are a reserve component. I guess it just helps to confound the political questions and enhance those who like to posture about GWB not having a right to wear the nomex. OK, looking at the IMDB, It was San Gorgonio, not San Antonio. Which definitely says it wasn't George. That leaves March and CANG as pretty much the only options, just as you said. I probably got "George" from "Gorgonio". Just as an aside, Frank Sinatra's mother was killed when her chartered bizjet (a Lear, I think) hit the other side of San Gorgonio. Small world, ain't it. It might also be noted that John Ryan's son, who got jumped over other graduates to get him an F-4 slot, killed himself in the airplane, and Ross Perot's son who got an ANG slot, arguably through political leverage, was a pretty good airplane driver. As long as there are people of influence, there will be some accusations (rightly or wrongly) of favoritism. Some get to places they shouldn't be and some get there fully qualified. Mary Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#77
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:03:44 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: Small world, ain't it. I can see San Gorgonio from my yard here in Palm Desert. I can also see it from Lancaster on a clear day. The snow helps, of course, but it won't be around much longer if we keep having days in the mid-80s. As long as there are people of influence, there will be some accusations (rightly or wrongly) of favoritism. Some get to places they shouldn't be and some get there fully qualified. Tell me about it. I don't know if you ran into this in the military, but civil servants get a lot of lectures about ethics. One of the big deals is the _appearance_ of impropriety being just about as bad as actual impropriety. It's sometimes very difficult. I'm sure that McCain, for example, found being the son and grandson of admirals difficult, for example. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#78
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:03:44 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: I guess it just helps to confound the political questions and enhance those who like to posture about GWB not having a right to wear the nomex. I've noticed the same thing with respect to his having been "ordered" to do makeup drills. (Which is to say: he got orders.) And also with respect to having been transferred (presumably involuntarily) to a "disciplinary" unit in Colorado. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm all the best -- Dan Ford email: (requires authentication) see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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