USAF = US Amphetamine Fools

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ...

The US Pentagon is becoming a nation unto itself with its own set of
laws above the laws of the land. What's next?

The civil aviation regulations do not apply to the military (nor the civilian government itself).
Any compliance with the FAR's the military services mandates is purely at their own
discretion.

The civil aviation regulations do not apply to the military

Then why do the FARs contain certain exemptions for military aircraft,
if the regs don't apply to them in the first place?

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
The civil aviation regulations do not apply to the military

Then why do the FARs contain certain exemptions for military aircraft,
if the regs don't apply to them in the first place?

In the interest of safety, the military respects and adheres to the FARs, in
most every instance. The military pilot, who is not required to even hold a
license, answers to his/her command, not the FAA.

There is some legal ambiguity, as the FAA has been given regulatory
authority in certain areas where they have not asserted their original legal
mandate. Over decades, this ambiguity has been resolved consistently - the
military is not governed by FARs.

There have been some interesting cases over the years. In a couple of cases
where military pilots have held licenses, the FAA has initiated action to
pull licenses, which would affect the military pilot's non-military or
post-military flying. These cases are rare. I wonder if the FAA has
actually pulled licenses of military pilots based on their military flying
behavior. Any ideas?

The FAR's contain certain exemptions for military aircraft primarily to
alert everybody involved that the military is likely to be acting outside of
the FAR's, in certain areas. A GA pilot might be interested in what can be
expected in the pattern when military aircraft are present! Thus, there is
great value to publish such exemptions.

The relationship between the military and FAA has been a model of
cooperation and communication compared to other inter-agency relationships.

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:08:55 GMT, "C.D. Damron"
wrote in Message-Id:
Hgu_a.94174$cF.28808@rwcrnsc53:


There is some legal ambiguity, as the FAA has been given regulatory
authority in certain areas where they have not asserted their original legal
mandate.

Can you elaborate on your statement above?

While the information you provided regarding the military not being
required to adhere to FAA FARs seems consistent with my experience,
USAF military pilots engaged in peacetime operations are apparently
required to comply with: AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-202


http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfi...fi11-202v3.pdf
BY ORDER OF THE
SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE
AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-202, VOLUME 3
6 JUNE 2003
Flying Operations
GENERAL FLIGHT RULES
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY

It would seem that AF Instruction 11-202 closely follows FAA FARs.

Supplements are he
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/searc...I11-202&page=2
--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message news
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:08:55 GMT, "C.D. Damron"
wrote in Message-Id:
Hgu_a.94174$cF.28808@rwcrnsc53:


There is some legal ambiguity, as the FAA has been given regulatory
authority in certain areas where they have not asserted their original legal
mandate.

Can you elaborate on your statement above?

While the information you provided regarding the military not being
required to adhere to FAA FARs seems consistent with my experience,
USAF military pilots engaged in peacetime operations are apparently
required to comply with: AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-202

Which is exactly what I said. The FAR's do not by themselves apply
to the military, the military mandates their own compliance with them.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

Which is exactly what I said. The FAR's do not by themselves apply
to the military, the military mandates their own compliance with them.


You make it sound like they have an option. The military is required to
follow applicable FARs by higher civilian authority.

the military is not governed by FARs...

Here's a copy from a FAA letter of interpretation:

December 9, 1992
Dr. Dietrich Bahls

Dear Dr. Bahls:

....

You are correct that in the U.S. there is only "one" airspace in which
both civil and military aircraft operate. While in U.S. airspace Part
91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR) governs the operation of
aircraft, both civilian and military. Outside of U.S. airspace,
however, the rules of the appropriate jurisdiction govern both U.S.
civilian and military aircraft operations.

....

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

The civil aviation regulations do not apply to the military (nor the
civilian government itself). Any compliance with the FAR's the
military services mandates is purely at their own discretion.


I don't know where you got that idea but it is simply not correct. We don't
have civil aviation regulations in the US, we have Federal Aviation
Regulations, and they apply to all; military, civilian, and civilian
government.

The Federal Aviation Act of 1958 gave the FAA sole responsibility for
developing and
maintaining a common civil-military system of air navigation and air traffic
control. The
Act contained an exception for military emergencies and procedures for use
in the event
of war, but outside of those situations, the military and the civilian
government complies with applicable FARs because they are required to do so.



FEDERAL AVIATION ACT OF 1958

TITLE I - GENERAL PROVISIONS

DECLARATION OF POLICY: THE ADMINISTRATOR

Sec. 103 [49 U.S. Code 1303]. In the exercise and performance of his
powers and duties under this Act the Administrator shall consider the
following, among other things, as being in the public interest:

(a) The regulation of air commerce in such manner as to best promote its
development and safety and fulfill the requirements of national defense;

(b) The promotion, encouragement, and development of civil aeronautics;

(c) The control of the use of the navigable airspace of the United
States and the regulation of both civil and military operations in such
airspace in the interest of the safety and efficiency of both;

(d) The consolidation of research and development with respect to air
navigation facilities, as well as the installation and operation thereof;

(e) The development and operation of a common system of air traffic
control and navigation for both military and civil aircraft.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

The civil aviation regulations do not apply to the military (nor the
civilian government itself). Any compliance with the FAR's the
military services mandates is purely at their own discretion.

That's correct. Government agencies do not have to abide by the FAR's.
However a lot of them have written into their regs that they have to
follow certain regs, because it is easier than coming up with their own.
A friend of mine flies for the USDA ADC(Animal Damage Control). He
hunts coyotes from the goverments Piper Cubs. Their regs say they must
follow for hire regs with respect to 100 hour inspections and annuals.
They do not worry about 337's and field approvals for mods to the
aircraft.