Skycatcher IFR?

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't appear
to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

If not, that would certainly limit its usefulness as a trainer. What is
involved is getting a new airframe IFR certified?

Vaughn

On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

I really doubt it. The new O-200D will not be a certified engine so I
doubt if Continental will allow that in its operating limitations. Even
more limiting, the useful load of the SkyCatcher is right at the minimum
allowable useful load for and LSA by ASTM. As such, they probably won't
have be able to add the back up electrical system needed for a glass
panel used in IMC.

If you would like a really nice Cessna-like and IFR certified LSA,
checkout the Tecnam family. They offer full IFR LSA aircraft, either
glass or traditional, your choice.

http://www.tecnamaircraft.com/Tecnam_Aircraft.htm

This company has been building airplanes for over 50 years. We have an
Echo on the line and boy is it a sweet and stable flyer. It has the
handling characteristics needed in an IFR bird. Monstrous useful load
too, especially compared to the SkyCatcher, which allows for long range
tanks, a pretty much prerequisite for flying hard IFR.

Helen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Helen Woods
Chesapeake Sport Pilot
Affordable Flight Training, Rentals, and Sales
(410) 490-1424
www.chesapeakesportpilot.com

Matt Whiting wrote:

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=br
Helen Woodsbr
Chesapeake Sport Pilotbr
Affordable Flight Training, Rentals, and Salesbr
(410) 490-1424br
www.chesapeakesportpilot.combr

Vaughn Simon wrote:


If not, that would certainly limit its usefulness as a trainer.

Not with regards to training sport pilots.

"Dave S" wrote in message
...
Vaughn Simon wrote:


If not, that would certainly limit its usefulness as a trainer.

Not with regards to training sport pilots.

(One is tempted to say "no ****", but that would not be polite.) To
earn its keep at a flight school/FBO, any trainer needs to be capable of more
than teaching sport pilots.

Vaughn

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.


It's my reading of the rules that NONE of the new LSA built planes are FAA
CERTIFIED. They are built to an ASTM "industry consensous" standard. The FAA
has removed themselves from the mirco level regulation, created instead a
LSA framework rule, and it's basically "whatever the manufacturer allows" is
OK.

So while the original Diamond (2 seat) Katana with the Rotax engine was FAA
certified VFR day/nite, its lack of any vac system prevented it from getting
FAA night certification.

The new LSAs have access to a pair of 912 series engines from Rotax. One of
which Rotax allowed for nite ops and the other one it did not, per its ops
manual. The LSA manufacturers must State in their ops manual that nite ops
is permitted by verifying with their component suppliers (who have some sort
of veto power). Once the manufacturer says nite ops is OK (as bound by the
ASTM), then just check the FARs part 91 minimums and go.

Tecnam in leading the new ASTM subcommittee to study IFR requirements and
they are working toward a "consensous standard". Once they agree on a
standard, and the Manufacturers state in their Ops Manuals that the LSA can
operate in IMC (and they need buy-in from their major component suppliers),
the OPINION of some is that the LSA will then be abal to operate in IMC
under IFR by meeting the FARpart 91 minimums.

The FAA has yet to speak up on this. Stay tuned.

Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.) Only the
912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Helen

Mike Isaksen wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.


It's my reading of the rules that NONE of the new LSA built planes are FAA
CERTIFIED. They are built to an ASTM "industry consensous" standard. The FAA
has removed themselves from the mirco level regulation, created instead a
LSA framework rule, and it's basically "whatever the manufacturer allows" is
OK.

So while the original Diamond (2 seat) Katana with the Rotax engine was FAA
certified VFR day/nite, its lack of any vac system prevented it from getting
FAA night certification.

The new LSAs have access to a pair of 912 series engines from Rotax. One of
which Rotax allowed for nite ops and the other one it did not, per its ops
manual. The LSA manufacturers must State in their ops manual that nite ops
is permitted by verifying with their component suppliers (who have some sort
of veto power). Once the manufacturer says nite ops is OK (as bound by the
ASTM), then just check the FARs part 91 minimums and go.

Tecnam in leading the new ASTM subcommittee to study IFR requirements and
they are working toward a "consensous standard". Once they agree on a
standard, and the Manufacturers state in their Ops Manuals that the LSA can
operate in IMC (and they need buy-in from their major component suppliers),
the OPINION of some is that the LSA will then be abal to operate in IMC
under IFR by meeting the FARpart 91 minimums.

The FAA has yet to speak up on this. Stay tuned.

LSAs are supposed to be VFR only. I can't find anywhere in the rules
that allow for an LSA to be IFR certified. If you find it let us
know. http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf

The Light-Sport Aircraft were not intended for complex operations.


Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/




On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

"Helen" wrote in message ...
Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.)

OK, the two 912 series I actually meant was the 80hp and the 100hp. But
within the 100hp group I believe you are correct. Both the ULS and the S are
currently night legal. Do you recall when Rotax made the ULS night legal, I
don't think it had it the first summer that the LSAs hit? I think it was
recent.

Here's the ops manual (get your metric conv sheets out):
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03925.pdf

And a service bulletin restricting fuel to 5% alcohol:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03830.pdf

Only the 912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

I recall the first Rotax Katanas that hit the US were non-IFR cert?!?
You are correct about the Vac pump option on the new 912s.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

But I don't believe the ASTM has even come out with a draft of the proposed
IMC operational standards. They may also be reaching well beyond their scope
as charged by the FAA. This is certainly an exciting and in flux issue.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Tecnam do indeed make a nice series of LSAs. Heck, with the moveable seat
even I can fit inside. And they are still the only LSA I've seen with
defrost to the windshield, something I consider nessesary when it gets cold
out and 2 pilots can fog up the inside pretty quick. But even they have yet
to offer pitot heat. And I have not been able to find were the prop
manufacturer states their wood/comp prop can be used in IMC. I would love to
hear about someone who actually filed and flew IFR in IMC (and willing to
give their real name).

What I do see is an effort by many LSA to equip to better than the FAR part
91 equipment minimums. And that then allows the FBO schools to use the LSA
to train for PPLs at 4 gallons per hour.

Like I said, stay tuned. This is an exciting time in LSAs, and the rules are
being written as we watch.