Bonanza (A36) Approach Speeds

Any other Bonanza pilots have thoughts on Approach Speeds?

Eckelbar posits 105 knots. I've tried it and it works, but is a
handful to reconfigure and slow down in time for a more reasonable 75
KIAS final approach speed.

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?

" wrote in news:e0869c2b-6570-
:

Any other Bonanza pilots have thoughts on Approach Speeds?

Eckelbar posits 105 knots. I've tried it and it works, but is a
handful to reconfigure and slow down in time for a more reasonable 75
KIAS final approach speed.

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?


Doesn't much matter if you ae happily configured when you cross the
threshold.
The only other consideratons are the way you slwo the airplane down.
Using flaps as speedbrakes is a bad idea and even putting them out at
the limit is undesirable. Much better to put them out well below the
limit speed.
Cooling shouldn't be much of a consideration. in fact, i always figured
a fast relativelty lcean low powered approach was a good thing for your
engine.
Last but not least is caution if you are at a place where you are mixing
it up with heavies. If you try and keep up your speed by flying below
the glide nice and flat initialy , then pulling th enose up and dumping
gear and flaps at the last second,you run a very real risk of hitting
the wake from the airplane in front of you.

Which is exactly what this guy did..
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR81-01.pdf


BTW, what it doesn;t sahy is that the Captain had gotten every singe
wake turbulence question on every written he had taken from Private
through ATR wrong, and had never been quizzed orally about same during
any of his flight tests.



Bertie

I used speed on VFR approaches that were comfortable in the VFR pattern. At
busy airports, I might fly the ILS at 140 KIAS to keep up with the jet ahead
and behind. As long as the gear was working, slowing down was not a
problem. VFR I would maintain high speed until the last mile, on an ILS
until break-out.

If you want to make every approach the same, 105 isn't a bad choice. It is
too high for a short grass strip and too slow for ATL or ORD.

The A36 has a big speed envelope and speed changes with weight.


wrote in message
...
| Any other Bonanza pilots have thoughts on Approach Speeds?
|
| Eckelbar posits 105 knots. I've tried it and it works, but is a
| handful to reconfigure and slow down in time for a more reasonable 75
| KIAS final approach speed.
|
| Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
| usually long..")
|
| Thoughts?

On Dec 16, 1:24 pm, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
I used speed on VFR approaches that were comfortable in the VFR pattern. At
busy airports, I might fly the ILS at 140 KIAS to keep up with the jet ahead
and behind. As long as the gear was working, slowing down was not a
problem. VFR I would maintain high speed until the last mile, on an ILS
until break-out.

If you want to make every approach the same, 105 isn't a bad choice. It is
too high for a short grass strip and too slow for ATL or ORD.

The A36 has a big speed envelope and speed changes with weight.



I don't know of any grass strips with an IAP (at least around here
(Southwest PA).

Agree that the A36 has a big speed envelope -- but I'm leaning towards
slow is better for most situations. No doubt landing at a busy air
terminal will require a different approach, but the real advantage of
GA is avoiding the ATL and ORD and landing at a nearby relieved field.

Dan
http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/

On Dec 16, 10:58 am, " wrote:

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?

I have a thought but it is not Bonanza specific. If this D Collins guy
is the editor of Flying magazine I would take anything he says with a
grain of salt. I read flying twice a year (The freebies I get at
Oshcosh and S&F) and every time I do I am reminded why I am not a
subscriber. Collins does some pretty contriversal stuff. I remember
reading an "IFR how to" by him and a columnist named Benston (SP?) and
it was pretty much pure bull****. I wonder how many accidents were
caused by their bad advise. To Collins defence, I think he is
instructed to be contriversal to keep the readership interested and
entertained.
If you dont feel comfy at a fast approach speed try following the
speeds outlined in your POH. Also, you will keep yourself out of
trouble if you do it the way the airlines do it.
FB

On Dec 16, 3:47 pm, "F. Baum" wrote:
On Dec 16, 10:58 am, " wrote:



Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?

I have a thought but it is not Bonanza specific. If this D Collins guy
is the editor of Flying magazine I would take anything he says with a
grain of salt. I read flying twice a year (The freebies I get at
Oshcosh and S&F) and every time I do I am reminded why I am not a
subscriber. Collins does some pretty contriversal stuff. I remember
reading an "IFR how to" by him and a columnist named Benston (SP?) and
it was pretty much pure bull****. I wonder how many accidents were
caused by their bad advise. To Collins defence, I think he is
instructed to be contriversal to keep the readership interested and
entertained.
If you dont feel comfy at a fast approach speed try following the
speeds outlined in your POH. Also, you will keep yourself out of
trouble if you do it the way the airlines do it.
FB

Dick Collins has been past editor of Flying as well as AOPA Pilot.
He's been a GA fixture for years and I am in no position to gainsay
his extensive experience (10,000 plus in GA airplanes).

However -- I'm also aware that what works for him in his airplane
isn't law for everyone else. No problem there.

But I think it's worth considering his advice given his experience.

There is no specific POH guidance for IAPs.

What specifically his Dick Collins written that is Controversial?


Dan
http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com

I have an S35. Eckelbar reccommends 15-16 inches and whatever RPM you
had it at in cruise, 2100-2500. I get 135-140 MPH indicated and fly the
approaches at that speed. At the outer marker/FAF/inbound course
intercept I'll lower the gear. That by itself tips the nose over to
about 500 fpm, and slows you down about 20 mph, just what you need for
the ILS. Fly the rest of the approach at about 110 MPH indicated. No
need for flaps until short final if you want them, otherwise don't
bother. As you pull more power out it slows down nicely.




wrote:
Any other Bonanza pilots have thoughts on Approach Speeds?

Eckelbar posits 105 knots. I've tried it and it works, but is a
handful to reconfigure and slow down in time for a more reasonable 75
KIAS final approach speed.

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?

On Dec 16, 8:35 pm, Newps wrote:
I have an S35. Eckelbar reccommends 15-16 inches and whatever RPM you
had it at in cruise, 2100-2500. I get 135-140 MPH indicated and fly the
approaches at that speed. At the outer marker/FAF/inbound course
intercept I'll lower the gear. That by itself tips the nose over to
about 500 fpm, and slows you down about 20 mph, just what you need for
the ILS. Fly the rest of the approach at about 110 MPH indicated. No
need for flaps until short final if you want them, otherwise don't
bother. As you pull more power out it slows down nicely.

Thanks.

That's pretty much what I've been doing to date -- slow to 105 prior
to FAF, drop gear at FAF, re-trim to maintain 105, descend at 550-600
FPM (depending on headwind).

The only I problem I see with this method is that once the runway is
in sight, there's a significant configuration change to slow the
airplane down and still remain on glideslope while getting to a more
appropriate approach speed (The A36 POH only specifies NORMAL LANDING
APPROACH SPEED).

The A36 lands in a very short space at 70 KIAS approach speed (power
is required to arrest the descent at that slow an airspeed). 78 KIAS
is recommended for power off emergency landing, so is probably the
best speed for short final.

I don't agree with the stereotypical Bonanza driver that lands at 100
KIAS and needs 4000 x 150 or greater. This wing will fly at a slow
enough speed to keep the landing roll short -- very short, in fact.

Dan

On Dec 16, 2:03 pm, " wrote:
:

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")

Thoughts?


Dick Collins has been past editor of Flying as well as AOPA Pilot.
He's been a GA fixture for years and I am in no position to gainsay
his extensive experience (10,000 plus in GA airplanes).

There is no specific POH guidance for IAPs.

What specifically his Dick Collins written that is Controversial?

Contriversial was probably not a good word choice. How about
unorthodox. All I can remember from the article is that this Tom B did
most of the series (And not very well ) and there were side bars by
Collins about all of the corners he cuts while flying IFR. If you
consider the fact that there could be some low time pilots reading the
magazine, it is probably not a good idea to brag about how much stuff
you can get away with. It has been awhile since I have done much
teaching and as I recall, I never set out to teach people to cut
corners. This is what I found to be unorthodox. The only other thing I
can remember about the guy was a few less than accurate editorials. I
understand Flying has a new guy in there now, but I would still take
any of these " How To" piloting articles with some healthy sceptisism.
BTW how are you aware of Collins backround and experience. Do you know
him personally ?
FB

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:58:04 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Any other Bonanza pilots have thoughts on Approach Speeds?

Eckelbar posits 105 knots. I've tried it and it works, but is a
handful to reconfigure and slow down in time for a more reasonable 75
KIAS final approach speed.

Dick Collins recommends flying approaches fast ("the runways are
usually long..")


Check with the ABS on this and a quick phone call should suffice. They
have some good advise.
They do say that *most* Bo pilots land far too fast. With 10 hours of
class room (ground school) they drilled into us we would NOT be
landing too fast.:-)) You should have heard the complaints when we
were informed we'd be calculating the approach and departure speeds
(for VFR) based on aircraft weights and flying those within a couple
MPH/knots. Most of those pilots had never landed that slow let alone
come down final at that speed. :-)) We did short filed landings and
takeoffs at book speeds which is a really steep and slow final
carrying lots of power. Then we did the notably faster power off
landings. They didn't have us do any no flap landings which are a
real education in nose high, float forever, use a lot of runway
exercises.

105 is what they had me flying the ILS in the Deb/F33 at Columbus.
As the foggles/break out did not come off until the MM (200 feet) the
reconfiguration was rather short and quick.

Yes, it is a hand full to reconfigure (retrim) while going full flaps.
If the 36 is like the 33 with trim it's dependent on air speed, not
flap settings which means a lot of retrimming from the 105 down to
about 70 in the roundout.

The Deb/33 does not change pitch or trim with changes in flap
settings, but small changes in speed in the 70 to 105 knot range
require substantial trim changes.

Roger (K8RI)

Thoughts?