XCSoar Questions

Hi XCSoar users,

I am new to XCSoar. I am currently reading the manual for version 6.2 and
playing with XCSoar on my PC and iPAQ hx4700.

My goal is to become a technical resource for XCSoar users. But since I'm
new, it will take me some time to get up to speed.

I'll be perfectly honest, in the past, I have not spent much time with
XCSoar because I prefer to sell products like SeeYou Mobile and Glide
Navigator II - because I'm trying to make a living selling soaring products
and supporting glider pilots with their technical products. Since I can't
sell XCSoar, it has been tough to make time to play with it. However, many
XCSoar users have told me how great it is, and I want to be able to support
XCSoar users with phone/web conferencing support (I do a lot of that with
SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile, Oudie, Glide Navigator II and LXe users) and also
provide cables, cradles and other accessories for XCSoar users. Also, I try
to stay up to date on the latest technologies (I'm a techno-nerd) and XCSoar
is definitely on the leading edge in regard to supported hardware platforms.
Becoming knowledgeable on XCSoar (over time) will help me stay up with the
latest technologies.

The reason I'm sending this note is to try to get a feel for how customers
are using XCSoar. I really have no idea what hardware users are running it
on, or how they are connecting their PDAs and PNAs to their soaring flight
instruments.

I hope no one minds my asking these questions. I sincerely want to be able
to help XCSoar users and become an expert.

Questions:
- What hardware platform (PDA/PNA/phone) are you running XCSoar on?
- What GPS are you using with XCSoar? Is it built-in to your PDA/PNA or
connected to your PDA using a cable connection, or Bluetooth, or.?
- Is your PDA/PNA connected to a soaring flight computer? If so, is it a
cable connection or Bluetooth, or .?
- If you are using a Bluetooth connection - is it reliable and easy to use?
- If you are using cables, where did you get them? I'd love to be able to
supply Goddard built cables for XCSoar users. Any PDA/PNA connector wiring
diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry for these basic questions. I look forward to your feedback.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
Serving the soaring community
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
1-952-445-9033

Paul,

XCSoar is a good program. It is definitely worth what it cost. So is
LK8000. You might want to familiarize yourself with both packages, their
similarities and differences. I have run both and am currently running
LK8000 on an iPAQ hx4700.

Wayne
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F


"Paul Remde" wrote in message ...

Hi XCSoar users,

I am new to XCSoar. I am currently reading the manual for version 6.2 and
playing with XCSoar on my PC and iPAQ hx4700.

My goal is to become a technical resource for XCSoar users. But since I'm
new, it will take me some time to get up to speed.

I'll be perfectly honest, in the past, I have not spent much time with
XCSoar because I prefer to sell products like SeeYou Mobile and Glide
Navigator II - because I'm trying to make a living selling soaring products
and supporting glider pilots with their technical products. Since I can't
sell XCSoar, it has been tough to make time to play with it. However, many
XCSoar users have told me how great it is, and I want to be able to support
XCSoar users with phone/web conferencing support (I do a lot of that with
SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile, Oudie, Glide Navigator II and LXe users) and also
provide cables, cradles and other accessories for XCSoar users. Also, I try
to stay up to date on the latest technologies (I'm a techno-nerd) and XCSoar
is definitely on the leading edge in regard to supported hardware platforms.
Becoming knowledgeable on XCSoar (over time) will help me stay up with the
latest technologies.

The reason I'm sending this note is to try to get a feel for how customers
are using XCSoar. I really have no idea what hardware users are running it
on, or how they are connecting their PDAs and PNAs to their soaring flight
instruments.

I hope no one minds my asking these questions. I sincerely want to be able
to help XCSoar users and become an expert.

Questions:
- What hardware platform (PDA/PNA/phone) are you running XCSoar on?
- What GPS are you using with XCSoar? Is it built-in to your PDA/PNA or
connected to your PDA using a cable connection, or Bluetooth, or.?
- Is your PDA/PNA connected to a soaring flight computer? If so, is it a
cable connection or Bluetooth, or .?
- If you are using a Bluetooth connection - is it reliable and easy to use?
- If you are using cables, where did you get them? I'd love to be able to
supply Goddard built cables for XCSoar users. Any PDA/PNA connector wiring
diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry for these basic questions. I look forward to your feedback.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
Serving the soaring community
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
1-952-445-9033

I have ran both LK8000 and XCSoar. I have recently been using LK8000.

I use an Ipaq 3950 connected to an Garmin GPS12XL (serial cable
connection). When my Flarm Arrives I will drive it off of the Flarm.
I typically make my own mounts and cables, but am thinking about
purchasing a mount for the Ipaq.

Brian
HP16T

Hi Brian,

I have some very nice Nimbus cradles for the iPAQ h3950 which you can see
he
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm

I also have gooseneck and RAM mounting arms and cables for connecting the
Garmin to the PDA and powering the PDA and GPS.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Brian" wrote in message
...
I have ran both LK8000 and XCSoar. I have recently been using LK8000.

I use an Ipaq 3950 connected to an Garmin GPS12XL (serial cable
connection). When my Flarm Arrives I will drive it off of the Flarm.
I typically make my own mounts and cables, but am thinking about
purchasing a mount for the Ipaq.

Brian
HP16T

Paul,

I have been using XC Soar for about the last year. Currently, I am
running it on my mobile phone, an HTC EVO from Sprint. I would not
necessarily recommend this as a platform because the AMOLED screen (while
beautiful indoors) washes out badly in the sunlight. However, the
hardware was free (since I already had the phone).

I have built an interface board based on the IOIO controller in order to
connect XC Soar to the 302 in my DG-200. So far this has not been tested,
but it's on my "to-do" list for my next trip to the gliderport. Support
for the IOIO was only included in XCSoar 6.2 (which was released a couple
of weeks ago), so this is a fairly new feature that is not supremely well
documented, and requires some building of hardware at the present time.
The documentation support is being remedied by the XC Soar team, I believe.

Regarding your desire for a cable to connect your PDA (Phone) running XC
Soar to a glide computer, I am not aware of anything commercial at the
present time. I am an electrical engineer by training and I manage an
electronics manufacturing firm, so if nobody else is already working on
this, and depending on my experience with the prototype interface board
I've built based on IOIO, I might consider producing a version
commercially. This is just an idea at this point and the answer probably
depends on whether someone else is already doing this, and what the
potential demand might be. Building one from the IOIO is not difficult,
but does take some soldering and assembly skills. Nothing most glider
pilots can't handle, but maybe more hassle than some would wish to put up
with. In nothing else, perhaps a kit of the relevant parts, along with a
clear set of assembly instructions would be an interim first step.

I am not a big fan of bluetooth in this application due to concerns about
power draw and interference. Probably these are overblown concerns on my
part, but for "mission critical" connections, I really prefer a cable.

Rob Dunning has already done a lot of development on this (see
http://xcsoar-robd.wikispaces.com/XC...232+%28IOIO%29
). Anyone interested can get an idea of the technical skills required
from reading his page.

I have not used a lot of other PNA devices, so my experience is a bit
limited, but here are my reasons for selecting XC SOAR:

Pros:
1) I like the Android OS. I have had it on my phone for a couple of
years and it has proven to be stable and has a growing base of apps and
hardware platforms.
2) I like the ability to select my preferred hardware platform.
Especially since more and more Anndroid platforms are coming onto the
market. It's nice to be able to select a screen size, display type, etc.
that fits your needs.
3) Android platforms are based on modern hardware (as opposed to old
Ipaqs that are getting a bit long in the tooth)
4) XC Soar itself is supported by an amazing group of developers. I am
completely impressed by the short development cycle and feature set that
exists in this program.
5) Of course, the price is right (free!)

Cons:
1) Documentation is sparse and infrequently updated with new features as
they emerge. I imagine this will eventually "catch up" with the
developers, but currently a fair amount of "trial and error" is required
to figure out how to use the system.
2) XC Soar is highly configurable. This is actually a "pro" but can be
a bit of a "con" when combined with the somewhat lacking documentation.
It's nice to have a list of scores of useful information parameters that
can be displayed, but if you don't understand exactly what each piece of
information means, errors can be made in interpretation and use of this
information in flight.
3) The whole XC Soar "experience" is a bit "DIY" at the moment. This is
a confluence of the lack of documentation, lack of commercial support
(since it's free), and the variety of hardware platforms involved. I
think it is great that you are interested in trying to support this system
commercially (perhaps by offering cables, recommended hardware platforms,
cradles?, etc.). Offering a "plug and play" solution based on XC Soar
would probably help accelerate the growth of the user base.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me directly (I'm in your
order database).

--Stefan Murry








On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:32:20 -0500, Paul Remde wrote:

Hi XCSoar users,

I am new to XCSoar. I am currently reading the manual for version 6.2
and playing with XCSoar on my PC and iPAQ hx4700.

My goal is to become a technical resource for XCSoar users. But since
I'm new, it will take me some time to get up to speed.

I'll be perfectly honest, in the past, I have not spent much time with
XCSoar because I prefer to sell products like SeeYou Mobile and Glide
Navigator II - because I'm trying to make a living selling soaring
products and supporting glider pilots with their technical products.
Since I can't sell XCSoar, it has been tough to make time to play with
it. However, many XCSoar users have told me how great it is, and I want
to be able to support XCSoar users with phone/web conferencing support
(I do a lot of that with SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile, Oudie, Glide Navigator
II and LXe users) and also provide cables, cradles and other accessories
for XCSoar users. Also, I try to stay up to date on the latest
technologies (I'm a techno-nerd) and XCSoar is definitely on the leading
edge in regard to supported hardware platforms. Becoming knowledgeable
on XCSoar (over time) will help me stay up with the latest technologies.

The reason I'm sending this note is to try to get a feel for how
customers are using XCSoar. I really have no idea what hardware users
are running it on, or how they are connecting their PDAs and PNAs to
their soaring flight instruments.

I hope no one minds my asking these questions. I sincerely want to be
able to help XCSoar users and become an expert.

Questions:
- What hardware platform (PDA/PNA/phone) are you running XCSoar on?
- What GPS are you using with XCSoar? Is it built-in to your PDA/PNA
or connected to your PDA using a cable connection, or Bluetooth, or.?
- Is your PDA/PNA connected to a soaring flight computer? If so, is it
a cable connection or Bluetooth, or .?
- If you are using a Bluetooth connection - is it reliable and easy to
use?
- If you are using cables, where did you get them? I'd love to be able
to supply Goddard built cables for XCSoar users. Any PDA/PNA connector
wiring diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

I'm sorry for these basic questions. I look forward to your feedback.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
Serving the soaring community
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
1-952-445-9033



--
Stefan Murry

S. Murry wrote:
Cons:
1) Documentation is sparse and infrequently updated with new features as
they emerge. I imagine this will eventually "catch up" with the
developers, but currently a fair amount of "trial and error" is required
to figure out how to use the system.

We know that, and we're terribly sorry for the outdated manual. The
problem is: everybody likes to hack code, that's exciting, but writing
documentation is rather boring.

You can blame me, too; I spent countless nights on new features, but
for 6.2, I have documented none of it yet.

We would love to have more volunteers to help improve the
documentation. There are about six thousand pilots who installed
XCSoar from Google's Android Market, not counting anonymous downloads
from our web site; there must be some potential for more contributors!

Max

Max, I'll be happy to volunteer. I'll e-mail you privately to see how I
can help.

--Stefan

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 03:53:28 -0500, Max Kellermann wrote:

S. Murry wrote:
Cons:
1) Documentation is sparse and infrequently updated with new
features as
they emerge. I imagine this will eventually "catch up" with the
developers, but currently a fair amount of "trial and error" is required
to figure out how to use the system.

We know that, and we're terribly sorry for the outdated manual. The
problem is: everybody likes to hack code, that's exciting, but writing
documentation is rather boring.

You can blame me, too; I spent countless nights on new features, but
for 6.2, I have documented none of it yet.

We would love to have more volunteers to help improve the
documentation. There are about six thousand pilots who installed
XCSoar from Google's Android Market, not counting anonymous downloads
from our web site; there must be some potential for more contributors!

Max


--
Stefan Murry

Questions:
- What hardware platform (PDA/PNA/phone) are you running XCSoar on?
I have two systems running XCsoar, a newer one on a Dell Axim Axim
X51v, my old one is on the old Dell X5.

- What GPS are you using with XCSoar? Is it built-in to your PDA/PNA
or
connected to your PDA using a cable connection, or Bluetooth, or.?
Dell Axim Axim X51v uses a Haicom Bluethooth dongle type, the older X5
uses the Haicom 303 that plugs into the SD slot. Both work very well
but of course the X5 is much harder to see. In a way I prefer the
simple nature of the X5 over the X51v. But I fly with the newer one
which has a newer, updated O/S in it (I'll have to check what I put in
there but it was a hack of sorts I bought from ebay a few years ago.).
Today I would chose a more modern hardware platform.


- Is your PDA/PNA connected to a soaring flight computer? If so, is
it a
cable connection or Bluetooth, or .?
No.

- If you are using a Bluetooth connection - is it reliable and easy
to use?
Easy to set up the first time? No. Reliable and easy to connect once
set up? Yes.

- If you are using cables, where did you get them? I'd love to be
able to
supply Goddard built cables for XCSoar users. Any PDA/PNA connector
wiring
diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

I only have power cables. The older Dell X5 works off an extended
battery. Good for 5 hours or so.

The newer X51v runs off an voltage regulator sourced from radio
control which supplies a clean 5 volts to the PDA and GPS dongle. I
made this harness myself from a 12V cigaratte power adaptor "kit"
sourced off the internet (it came with a vatiety of plugs for all
types of PDA,s and cell phones). I tried to use the cigarette lighter-
style power supply that came with the kit but it was very dirty power
and messed with my radio transmissions. Once I chaged to the better r/
c type of regulator my VHF radio problems went away.

Paul, thanks for your nice webpage and the PDA reviews. I used them a
lot when shopping for this stuff. Let me know if you have any more
questions.

See you on the field,
Adam

Stefan,

As mentioned earlier, I'm currently using LK8000 on an iPAQ 4700. I'm using
both a cable and Bluetooth serial connections. The cable is from my GPS (in
the future PowerFLARM) and data from my Borgelt B-50 is transmitted via
Bluetooth.

The Bluetooth interface used with the B-50 was purchased from Paul.
(http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm) So far I haven't had any problems
with either battery life, or interference.

Wayne
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F

"S. Murry" wrote in message
news
....Snip...

I am not a big fan of bluetooth in this application due to concerns about
power draw and interference. Probably these are overblown concerns on my
part, but for "mission critical" connections, I really prefer a cable.

.... Snip ...

Thanks, Paul. It's good to hear that the bluetooth is a workable solution.

--Stefan

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:52:21 -0500, Wayne Paul wrote:

Stefan,

...Snip...

The Bluetooth interface used with the B-50 was purchased from Paul.
(http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm) So far I haven't had any
problems with either battery life, or interference.

Wayne
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F

"S. Murry" wrote in message
news
...Snip...

I am not a big fan of bluetooth in this application due to concerns about
power draw and interference. Probably these are overblown concerns on my
part, but for "mission critical" connections, I really prefer a cable.

... Snip ...


--
Stefan Murry