PK of Igla vs. airliner?

There should be anti-vehicle ditches(filled with gators! 8-) ) around every
airport.
Hitting a passenger jet with a .50BMG (single shot or semi-auto,10 round
magazine)will not be easy,and will have little effect,as hitting something
critical is unlikely.Probably go in one side and out the other,very little
damage.


--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me


Take your Barret, hide in the weeds 1/4 mile from the end of the runway and put
one shot in each intake as the airplane lifts off. Difficult shots, but not
impossible.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Jim Yanik" skrev i melding
.. .
"Peter Glasø" pgglaso @ broadpark.no wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" skrev i melding
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om:

FAS shows probability of a fighter kill by SA-18 as somehwere
between 30 and 50 percent. Not sure how that was measured.
Therefore, I'd imagine that PK on a liner taking off, is near 1.
Most of them have two engines now. Good luck gaining altitude with
one out. But today on CNN I read it's about 50/50 which sound like
BS to me.

Of course that PK is for *one* SAM fired. ISTR that the Kenya attempt
used TWO missiles.

Terrorists learn as well,they might do better the next time.The attack
in Kenya was poorly carried out.The next attack will probably against
an aircraft on final approach,and at a closer range.Or imagine the
damage a small group of RPG-armed terrorist could do if they crashed
through the fence at a major airport in a pickup truck,and started
blasting away at all the aircraft in sight.Or a few men armed with
0.50 cal. sniper rifles - readily available in the US.The
possibilities are endless.




There should be anti-vehicle ditches(filled with gators! 8-) ) around
every
airport.
Hitting a passenger jet with a .50BMG (single shot or semi-auto,10 round
magazine)will not be easy,and will have little effect,as hitting something
critical is unlikely.Probably go in one side and out the other,very little
damage.

Not if they use ammo like the Norwegian Raufoss multi-pupose round,it has
explosive,fragmentation and incendiary effects as well as an armour piercing
slug.And it is readily available in the US.You can buy a 0.50 cal. sniper
rifle for just over 1000$ - the terrorists wouldn't even have to smuggle
weapons in to the country,just buy them there!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/i...efs/50_cal.asp


Check out the picture of the fragmentation test of the raufoss round he

http://www.barrettrifles.com/test_explosive.html

Tarver Engineering wrote:
"Raptor" wrote in message ...

Tarver Engineering wrote:

Here on Earth, sholder fired missiles are proven to be effective

agiainst

turbo jets such as older 727s use, but have missed every shot on high

bypass

engine vehicles. Think for a moment at the difference in discharge
temperatures for the two different types of engines and I think you will
understand.

How many shots is that, roughly?


One, all the engines are clustered together; nice and hot.

I meant, how many shots have been taken (and missed) at high bypass engines?

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"John Keeney" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Peter Glasø" pgglaso @ broadpark.no wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" skrev i melding
.. .
) wrote in
om:

FAS shows probability of a fighter kill by SA-18 as somehwere
between 30 and 50 percent. Not sure how that was measured.
Therefore, I'd imagine that PK on a liner taking off, is near 1.
Most of them have two engines now. Good luck gaining altitude
with one out. But today on CNN I read it's about 50/50 which
sound like BS to me.

Of course that PK is for *one* SAM fired. ISTR that the Kenya
attempt used TWO missiles.

Terrorists learn as well,they might do better the next time.The
attack in Kenya was poorly carried out.The next attack will
probably against an aircraft on final approach,and at a closer
range.Or imagine the damage a small group of RPG-armed terrorist
could do if they crashed through the fence at a major airport in a
pickup truck,and started blasting away at all the aircraft in
sight.Or a few men armed with 0.50 cal. sniper rifles - readily
available in the US.The possibilities are endless.




There should be anti-vehicle ditches(filled with gators! 8-) ) around
every
airport.
Hitting a passenger jet with a .50BMG (single shot or semi-auto,10
round magazine)will not be easy,and will have little effect,as
hitting something critical is unlikely.Probably go in one side and
out the other,very little damage.

Aim for the cockpit from along the flight path: high probability of
escape if the plane doesn't fall on you and if it does, well, a plane
load of tourist seems worth dyeing for to a lot of jihadist.

You may be right about the antivehical ditch, not so sure about
the gators.




Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy away at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving target.
Still not an easy task.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

snip
Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy away at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

I was out in Florida retrofitting some old 727s in '92 and I found fried
gator tail to be delicious.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving target.
Still not an easy task.

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

"Tarver Engineering" skrev i melding
...

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

snip
Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy away
at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

I was out in Florida retrofitting some old 727s in '92 and I found fried
gator tail to be delicious.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving target.
Still not an easy task.

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

Snipers have ignited the fuel tanks of APCs at ranges over a mile with 0.50
cal. sniper rifles.Hitting a 747 at a range of a few hundred yards should be
no problem - especially with a semi-auto rifle with a 10 round magazine.One
could do it while the aircraft is on the ground.Would an airliner like the
747 survive an explosive,incendiary round hitting a fuel tank? One would
think that the fumes in a near empty tank of an aircraft who has just landed
would ignite immediatly.

"Peter Glasø" pgglaso @ broadpark.no wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" skrev i melding
...

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

snip
Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy away
at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

I was out in Florida retrofitting some old 727s in '92 and I found fried
gator tail to be delicious.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and
the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving target.
Still not an easy task.

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

Snipers have ignited the fuel tanks of APCs at ranges over a mile with
0.50
cal. sniper rifles.Hitting a 747 at a range of a few hundred yards should
be
no problem -

Although a 50 cal is an acceptable 1000 yard shooter for stationary targets,
what you posted seems to be a fantasy, Peter. The 747 will be traveling
over 2 miles a minute at approach.

especially with a semi-auto rifle with a 10 round magazine.

OK.

You have never been around a 50, have you?

"Tarver Engineering" skrev i melding
...

"Peter Glasø" pgglaso @ broadpark.no wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" skrev i melding
...

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

snip
Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy
away
at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

I was out in Florida retrofitting some old 727s in '92 and I found
fried
gator tail to be delicious.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and
the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving
target.
Still not an easy task.

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

Snipers have ignited the fuel tanks of APCs at ranges over a mile with
0.50
cal. sniper rifles.Hitting a 747 at a range of a few hundred yards
should
be
no problem -

Although a 50 cal is an acceptable 1000 yard shooter for stationary
targets,
what you posted seems to be a fantasy, Peter. The 747 will be traveling
over 2 miles a minute at approach.

especially with a semi-auto rifle with a 10 round magazine.

OK.

You have never been around a 50, have you?

I was a 0.50 gunner in the army.Not the sniper versions though,the old M2 on
an anti-aircraft mount.And i meant shooting at taxiing aircraft,not while
they're doing 300 kmph, in the air.But if close enough,it shouldn't be
"impossible" to hit a 747 during take off,or landing either - it is a HUGE
aircraft.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

If the target is an airplane, it would be more a matter of skill than luck.

At 120 knots, an object is moving about 200 feet per second. At a range of "a
few hundred yards" (1,000', for a round number), the time of flight for a round
from any modern, high-power rifle would be much less than a second. For
example, a .223 round from an AR-15 or M-16 has a muzzle velocity of 2500-3000
fps, depending on the specific load. The .300 Wby Mag has a muzzle velocity of
2900-3400 fps. Time of flight to 1,000' would be less than 1/2 second.

For a crossing shot on a 747, a lead of less than 100' would be required. Aim
at the nose, and the bullet would still impact the middle of the fuselage (or
the wing section that masks the fuselage). After a couple bracketing shots, a
marksman could easily put 8 rounds from a 10-round clip into the center fuselage
and/or wing section.

"Peter Glasø" pgglaso @ broadpark.no wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" skrev i melding
...

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

snip
Gators was an attempt at humor,but even normally brave people shy away
at
the thought of being a gator's dinner.

I was out in Florida retrofitting some old 727s in '92 and I found fried
gator tail to be delicious.

But the chance of hitting something critical still is very small,and
the
frontal area of an airplane is still pretty small and a moving target.
Still not an easy task.

Hitting a target moving at 120 kts with a bullet would be pure luck.

Snipers have ignited the fuel tanks of APCs at ranges over a mile with
0.50
cal. sniper rifles.Hitting a 747 at a range of a few hundred yards should
be
no problem - especially with a semi-auto rifle with a 10 round
magazine.One
could do it while the aircraft is on the ground.Would an airliner like the
747 survive an explosive,incendiary round hitting a fuel tank? One would
think that the fumes in a near empty tank of an aircraft who has just
landed
would ignite immediatly.

One would be wrong, the temperature in those tanks will be very low.

The risk, as seen in the case of TWA800 and the 737 that blew up at
the gate in Manila is when an empty tank has been sitting in the sun all
day.

Keith
is hot after sitting in the su