Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological

Subject: Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological
From: RogerM
Date: 12/13/03 7:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Peter Aitken wrote:

1) We could have dropped the bomb in a lightly populated area to show the
Japanese that we had it and hopefully scared them into surrender. Note that
Hiroshima and a couple of other cities were spared conventional bombing so
the effects of the A-bomb could be studied - rather cold blooded don't you
think?


Correct. The bombs were dropped on cities in order to cow the Japanese
and to threaten the Russians.

2) We did not really need to invade Japan. They were beaten with no
credible
air or naval threat and could have been sealed off. Thus the argument that
the bombs saved the undoubtedly high casualties of an invasion is specious.


Correct again.

--

"I swear on my grandmother. I wouldn't break that." - Jon Dalton,
Survivor 7

The ultimate purpose of humanity is to judge God.

I find that while malice and greed are prime motivations in human
behavior, it is a serious error to discount basic human stupidity.


Nothing to say about the Holocaust. The rape of Nanking, The Bataan death
march, Pearl Harbor?

Regards,



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Nice one Art- amazing how these academic idiots decide to ignore the rest of
history. Adjusting reality to suit their own purposes methinks.

Cheers
Mad Jock

ArtKramr wrote:

: Nothing to say about the Holocaust. The rape of Nanking, The Bataan death
: march, Pearl Harbor?

Those seem 100% irrelevant to me in this debate. We are talking
here about warfare, not justice.

--
Emmanuel Gustin

Subject: Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological
From: "Emmanuel.Gustin"
Date: 12/14/03 4:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

: Nothing to say about the Holocaust. The rape of Nanking, The Bataan death
: march, Pearl Harbor?

Those seem 100% irrelevant to me in this debate. We are talking
here about warfare, not justice.

--
Emmanuel Gustin



Bombing the enemy is a legitimate part of warfare. Raping civilians and
beheading PW's is not. We fought the war with honor. Japan fought the war
without honor. You decide what is relevant to you. I'll decide what is relevant
to me.

Regards,


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 14 Dec 2003 12:36:14 GMT, "Emmanuel.Gustin" wrote:

ArtKramr wrote:

: Nothing to say about the Holocaust. The rape of Nanking, The Bataan death
: march, Pearl Harbor?

Those seem 100% irrelevant to me in this debate. We are talking
here about warfare, not justice.

The decision to use the bombs was made much easier by the
depraved, despicable acts of the Japanese.

Al Minyard

From: (KEV OF BBA)

Nice one Art- amazing how these academic idiots decide to ignore the rest of
history. Adjusting reality to suit their own purposes methinks.

Cheers
Mad Jock

Firstly, let me say I know the atomic bombings were absolutely necessary.

Secondly, an academic excercise such as discussing the bombings as a way to end
the war can exclude the atrocities Art mentioned. I just wish most of said
academics would not count only American lives. They should count Japanese,
Chinese and Soviet( in China) lives as well as Soviet expansion into nothern
Japan proper.

Thirdly, let me say such academic excercises are nice diversions but they have
no relevance to reality.

And, lastly, it is a good thing such discussions between the pro-bombing and
anti-bombing factions exist, I just wish they would not extend to a museum
display that should remain politically neutral. Put the airplane there with a
sign saying something like this: This B-29 dropped the first atomic bomb ever
used in anger.


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote:

From: (KEV OF BBA)

Nice one Art- amazing how these academic idiots decide to ignore the rest of
history. Adjusting reality to suit their own purposes methinks.

Cheers
Mad Jock

Firstly, let me say I know the atomic bombings were absolutely necessary.

Secondly, an academic excercise such as discussing the bombings as a way to end
the war can exclude the atrocities Art mentioned. I just wish most of said
academics would not count only American lives. They should count Japanese,
Chinese and Soviet( in China) lives as well as Soviet expansion into nothern
Japan proper.

Thirdly, let me say such academic excercises are nice diversions but they have
no relevance to reality.

And, lastly, it is a good thing such discussions between the pro-bombing and
anti-bombing factions exist, I just wish they would not extend to a museum
display that should remain politically neutral. Put the airplane there with a
sign saying something like this: This B-29 dropped the first atomic bomb ever
used in anger.


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Of course...and for Christ's sake don't add "...and it was a very
bad thing"...

-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...


snip of idiot gibbering

Of course...and for Christ's sake don't add "...and it was a very
bad thing"...

It was a very bad thing. Pandora's box can never be closed again.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
.. .


snip of idiot gibbering

Of course...and for Christ's sake don't add "...and it was a very
bad thing"...

It was a very bad thing. Pandora's box can never be closed again.

Well John, it's quite likely that someone said exactly that when
the very first charge of gunpowder was ignited. And likely again
when the first arrow left it's bowstring...the first club
connected with someone's skull...etc...

-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
.. .


snip of idiot gibbering

Of course...and for Christ's sake don't add "...and it was a very
bad thing"...

It was a very bad thing. Pandora's box can never be closed again.

Well John, it's quite likely that someone said exactly that when
the very first charge of gunpowder was ignited. And likely again
when the first arrow left it's bowstring...the first club
connected with someone's skull...etc...

Are you sure that wasn't Tarver's skull that it connected with? That might
explain a few things...

Brooks


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"