Flying under IMC

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Ah, I'd not thought about it that way. It's not a comforting thought:
that
I could be above a ceiling and unable to return to full IFR. There's no
regulatory requirement that would force a controller to let a
VFR-on-top-er
back into the system?

Not as far as I know. But, it's not an issue of the controller "letting you
back in the system". You ARE "in the system". You've just chosen to apply
VFR rules to your IFR flight, in addition to the usual IFR rules.

Also, remember that the previous concern was regarding when you fly way off
your route using the "VFR on top" rules. I wouldn't say that's an advisable
use of "VFR on top", for the very reason that it might be more difficult to
get back on route.

Now, all that said, just as I've never had any trouble asking for "VFR on
top", I've also never had any trouble cancelling "VFR on top". I stay
reasonably close to my originally filed route, or I plan my deviation so
that I have a good nav signal back to my route, and acceptable terrain
clearance.

I suppose it's possible you could ask for "VFR on top" to a particular
waypoint, giving ATC some prior notice of where you plan to return to
conventional IFR flight. That might give you some reassurance that you
wouldn't lose your status as a non-"VFR on top" flight.

But honestly, I can't think of any reason ATC wouldn't cancel "VFR on top"
for you. You never lose your status as an IFR flight, so it seems to me
that the worst that could happen is that a) you remain responsible for your
own off-airway navigation for some time (if you're out of radar coverage,
for example) or b) ATC vectors you in an inconvenient way for a little
while, as they work you back into their normal traffic flow. You still have
a valid IFR clearance and are still "in the system".

I didn't mean to scare anyone off of "VFR on top" by my comment. It was
more along the lines of "I'm not aware of any regulatory requirement that
ATC grant ANY request by a pilot". ATC won't grant a request that they
cannot accomodate with respect to the other traffic, but otherwise they
generally allow pretty much whatever you ask for.

Pete

"Ross Younger" wrote in message
...
* Kai Glaesner :
IIRC in the UK you have some sort of "poor-mans-IFR" (no pun intended ;-)
called the "IMC" rating, giving you the right to fly under IMC without
being
"in-the-system".

Yes, it relaxes certain rules from the basic PPL/CPL (minimum flight
visibility and the requirement to remain in sight of the surface at all
times), as well as allowing flight under IFR in class D and E airspace.
(The basic PPL may fly IFR in class F/G; it's just that one must remain
in flight conditions which are essentially VMC.) However, it doesn't
change any of the rules about filing flight plans.

Does that thing make it to JAR-FCL?

It would be nice if it would be recognised...

To be more precise the IMC rating allows the following:-

1. Valid in the UK (and Channel Islands):

o In Classes F and G, to fly VFR in visibility less than 3km (down to
1500m, but 1800m for runway use)

o In Classes D, E, F and G, to fly IFR down to zero visibility,
providing the aircraft is 'legal' for it, in or out of sight of the surface.

o For Controlled Airspace, (including Class A designated as a ConTRol
Zone), to fly Special VFR down to 3km visibility.

"Kai Glaesner" wrote in message
...

Any estimates available what to spend on an IR (starting from a national
PPL) in the UK? Here in germany they charge you around 13.000 EUR for
that.

Yes, about EUR 15,000 for a SEP-IR and about EUR 20,000 for an MEP-IR (55
hours training, not including the mandatory ground school). The problem is
that while ICAO specifies 40 hours "instrument time", JAA-FCL specifies 55
hours instrument training by an approved training facility.

I did mine 10 years ago under rules that allowed me to do just 28 hours
(with credit for the IMC rating) in my own aircraft.

Julian

duniho wrote:

[...]
Now, all that said, just as I've never had any trouble asking for "VFR on
top", I've also never had any trouble cancelling "VFR on top". I stay
reasonably close to my originally filed route, or I plan my deviation so
that I have a good nav signal back to my route, and acceptable terrain
clearance.
[...]

This has been confusing me since the thread a few weeks ago. I looked through
several reference sources, and cannot find an explanation of the "vfr-on-top"
IFR clearance that implies authorization to depart from the route one was
earlier cleared via. Where may one find this?


- FChE