Free plans? Open source plans?

The first question is really simple: Are there any free plans for
homebuilt aircraft on the web? It should have an engine and be able to
carry a person, apart from that I'm just interested in seeing what's
out there, if any...

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:48:28 -0800 (PST), Oliver Arend
wrote:

The first question is really simple: Are there any free plans for
homebuilt aircraft on the web? It should have an engine and be able to
carry a person, apart from that I'm just interested in seeing what's
out there, if any...

Texas Parasol, courtesy of our own Richard Lamb:

http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/...et.03.04.2006/

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

One of the RAH folks was part of a group of 13 people who built fourteen
examples of a given plans-built design at the same time. There were people who
were designated decision-makers, but everyone still tried to go their own way
and make changes, "improve" portions, and generally go against the rest of the
group. The fall of Saigon sounds like it had been quieter.

Couldn't imagine trying to actually *design* an airplane in such an environment.
You'll end up with folks pushing their own versions, with no knowledge of their
qualifications to do the design or even whether they've tried it themselves.
For a small airplane, for good or for bad, you need *one* designer. If you
don't like the way he does it, you're free to change it, but you don't get the
opportunity to push your version in front of his. Compared to a software
product, an airplane is a very long-term affair. Bad decisions early can lead
to death years later.

Ron Wanttaja

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.

wrote:
The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver


If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.


Almost ALL experimental Amateur built airplanes would qualify as open
source...

On Jan 25, 10:16*pm, cavalamb himself wrote:
wrote:
The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.

Almost ALL experimental Amateur built airplanes would qualify as open
source...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.

"BobR" wrote

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.

That's putting it a bit too simplistic, don't you think?

Wright brothers didn't use a stiff outer skin of cloth and resin to carry
the loads, did they? How about a feathering tail on a spaceship?

If you want to put it that way, Leonardo Da Vinci was copied by the Wright
Brothers.
--
Jim in NC

On Jan 26, 11:40*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"BobR" wrote

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. *All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. *Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.

That's putting it a bit too simplistic, don't you think?

Wright brothers didn't use a stiff outer skin of cloth and resin to carry
the loads, did they? *How about a feathering tail on a spaceship?

If you want to put it that way, Leonardo Da Vinci was copied by the Wright
Brothers.
--
Jim in NC

A bit simplistic maybe but not inaccurate. The canard design is not
that far removed from the Wright Brothers tail first design. Aviation
once proven possible has been largely evolutionary throughout its
development with the major breakthroughs being made in the early
years. Technology has allowed us to refine the designs but the basics
have not changed. The feathering tail on a spaceship is interesting
but hardly revolutionary.

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. *All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. *Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think you know what open source means.

Most aviation advances have been held strictly secret, either by
companies or by governments. Nobody advertises their advances to their
potential adversaries.

Open source DEMANDS that it's a fundamental right to know how
something works.

Anybody wants to give their ideas away, fine by me.

wrote:
When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think you know what open source means.

Most aviation advances have been held strictly secret, either by
companies or by governments. Nobody advertises their advances to their
potential adversaries.

The Wright brothers took to the air on wings that had an airfoil that
had evolved from the experiments of Otto Lilienthal, which they read
about from Lilienthal's own writings. Their wire and strut braced wing
evolved from early experiments and designs of Octave Chanute, who not
only freely shared his discoveries with the Wrights, he visited them at
least once. In fact, Chanute organized an international conference to
share information on aeronautics. The Wright brothers were keen to
patent their advancements, not keep them secret. It is pretty hard to
keep something secret when it is in plain sight for all to see, like for
example Bleriot's modern tractor design which quickly eclipsed flying
bedsteads like the Curtiss and the Wright flyer. After World War one,
when the US realized any lead they had in aviation was not only history
but they were now way outclassed, people like Gugenheim and the US
government (through NACA), went out of their way to foster open sharing
of information. Guggenheim did it by bringing top flight theorists to
the US (students of Rankine, Prandtl and Froude) to teach and NACA did
it by systematic experimentation and dissemination of the results. This
pretty much continued up until WWII. In fact, I have papers and
books from US efforts during WWII that not only reference the pre war
work of Japanese researchers, but laud them.

Charles

On Jan 28, 10:22*pm, wrote:
When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. *All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. *Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think you know what open source means.

Most aviation advances have been held strictly secret, either by
companies or by governments. Nobody advertises their advances to their
potential adversaries.

Open source DEMANDS that it's a fundamental right to know how
something works.

Anybody wants to give their ideas away, fine by me.

No, I know exactly what open source means and have been a participant
in some limited areas. I am not talking about the corporate and
government worlds of super high tech development systems but general
aviation. In that realm, the developments have largely been by
experimentation based on designs and ideas gained from others. That
may not be "open source" in the strictest sense of todays software
development model but is in reality the same type of development.
Don't know of anybody that has any patents on NACA wing designs for
example.