Too many pilots in the cockpit spoil the landing...

NTSB Identification: DEN04LA009
Accident occurred Sunday, October 12, 2003 in Las Cruces, NM
Aircraft: Piper PA-28-140, registration: N891GP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

According to the commercial pilot, they were repositioning the
aircraft for Arizona Aero Tech and were stopping at Las Cruces to
refuel. The private pilot, seated in the left seat, was flying the
airplane, and was attempting to land on runway 08. During the landing
flare, a wind gust caught the airplane and it began to drift off of
the runway centerline. The private pilot pulled the throttle and
continued to land. At that time, the commercial pilot added power to
attempt a go-around, and the private pilot pulled the throttle a
second time. As the airplane approached the departure end of runway
08, the commercial pilot took control of the airplane. He added power
to attempt a go-around. The airplane began to stall/mush and the right
main landing gear caught a patch of sage brush and the airplane
impacted the terrain. The impact with terrain separated the right main
landing gear and displaced the right wing.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

That must be a sticky legal situation. As PIC, is the left seat pilot
responsible for wrestling the controls from the commercial pilot? Who would
the FAA be referring to when they say "pilot failed to..."? How about the
insurance company?

Anyone been through this?

Marco

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
om...
NTSB Identification: DEN04LA009
Accident occurred Sunday, October 12, 2003 in Las Cruces, NM
Aircraft: Piper PA-28-140, registration: N891GP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

According to the commercial pilot, they were repositioning the
aircraft for Arizona Aero Tech and were stopping at Las Cruces to
refuel. The private pilot, seated in the left seat, was flying the
airplane, and was attempting to land on runway 08. During the landing
flare, a wind gust caught the airplane and it began to drift off of
the runway centerline. The private pilot pulled the throttle and
continued to land. At that time, the commercial pilot added power to
attempt a go-around, and the private pilot pulled the throttle a
second time. As the airplane approached the departure end of runway
08, the commercial pilot took control of the airplane. He added power
to attempt a go-around. The airplane began to stall/mush and the right
main landing gear caught a patch of sage brush and the airplane
impacted the terrain. The impact with terrain separated the right main
landing gear and displaced the right wing.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



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Marco Leon wrote:

That must be a sticky legal situation. As PIC, is the left seat pilot
responsible for wrestling the controls from the commercial pilot? Who would
the FAA be referring to when they say "pilot failed to..."?

The FAA has a long-standing practice of going after the pilot who has the most
advanced ratings. They have been known to violate pilots who were in parts of
the plane that made it impossible for them to take the controls. They almost
certainly will claim the commercial pilot was PIC. Not that it matters - there's
nothing to stop the FAA from violating both pilots.

How about the insurance company?

Depends on the policy. They almost certainly will pay off, but they may elect
to sue either or both of the pilots.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...

The FAA has a long-standing practice of going after the pilot who has the most
advanced ratings.

Actually, the have a practice of going after the pilot who can most be harmed by
the enforcement action.

.....according to the commercial pilot.

--
Montblack
"Just the usual inanity"


"Gene Seibel"
NTSB Identification: DEN04LA009
Accident occurred Sunday, October 12, 2003 in Las Cruces, NM
Aircraft: Piper PA-28-140, registration: N891GP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
snip
As the airplane approached the departure end of runway
08, the commercial pilot took control of the airplane. He added power
to attempt a go-around. The airplane began to stall/mush and the right
main landing gear caught a patch of sage brush and the airplane
impacted the terrain. The impact with terrain separated the right main
landing gear and displaced the right wing.

They have been known to violate pilots who were in parts of the
plane that made it impossible for them to take the controls.

I keep hearing that story, but have yet to see an actual case where
that occurred. Do you have any references?

As PIC, is the left seat pilot responsible for wrestling the
controls from the commercial pilot?

What does being the left seat pilot have to do with being PIC?

Nothing. It was just an identifying descriptor according to the story. If he
was said to have a red shirt, I would have called him "the pilot in the red
shirt."

Marco

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
As PIC, is the left seat pilot responsible for wrestling the
controls from the commercial pilot?

What does being the left seat pilot have to do with being PIC?



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wax on
wax off
power on
power off
full power
pull power
take off power!
ok
crash
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
om...
NTSB Identification: DEN04LA009
Accident occurred Sunday, October 12, 2003 in Las Cruces, NM
Aircraft: Piper PA-28-140, registration: N891GP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

According to the commercial pilot, they were repositioning the
aircraft for Arizona Aero Tech and were stopping at Las Cruces to
refuel. The private pilot, seated in the left seat, was flying the
airplane, and was attempting to land on runway 08. During the landing
flare, a wind gust caught the airplane and it began to drift off of
the runway centerline. The private pilot pulled the throttle and
continued to land. At that time, the commercial pilot added power to
attempt a go-around, and the private pilot pulled the throttle a
second time. As the airplane approached the departure end of runway
08, the commercial pilot took control of the airplane. He added power
to attempt a go-around. The airplane began to stall/mush and the right
main landing gear caught a patch of sage brush and the airplane
impacted the terrain. The impact with terrain separated the right main
landing gear and displaced the right wing.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:39:39 GMT, Greg Esres wrote
in Message-Id: :

What does being the left seat pilot have to do with being PIC?

It's a convention in some aircraft insurance policies, IIRC.